The Gear Forum designs a next-gen digital modeler!

[GTR37]

+1.

It's weird going through old videos of massive 80s rockstars like Lukather, where they showcase the sounds out of their insanely complicated, uber expensive rack setups... and realizing you could program those sounds in 15 minutes in your $600 floor multi-FX unit.

We're really spoiled these days.

100%

I remember seeing an interview Zakk wylde talking about his rack system and how he hated it
He said Midi is such a pain in the ..
When your rig goes down you need an engineer from NASA to find the issue lol
I think this was his comment around the No more tears tour

 

[Sascha Franck]

Because that was 1980

So, in your book it's a good thing that modern modelers can't even remotely do what rigs could 40 years ago?

So your above statement is verifiably false

No, you just seem to have no idea what I'm talking about.

 

[GTR37]

So, in your book it's a good thing that modern modelers can't even remotely do what rigs could 40 years ago?



No, you just seem to have no idea what I'm talking about.

You stated that you cannot get the same functionality you could with the old 80s rack gear as far as routing

I said sure you can call Dave Freidman but it will cost you $$$$

Back in the 80s it’s also was not readily available those racks are built component by component if you have ever seen the inside of they are a work of art
But you cannot walk into a store and buy that those were built by professional touring companies

So if you are saying you cannot today get something like you are incorrect , if you are saying you can’t get something like that in a store then you are right and again it goes back to ROI ,

Dodge could make a hot pink metallic truck with white tires
But they are not going to why ?
There is no return on investment

 

[Sascha Franck]

You stated that you cannot get the same functionality you could with the old 80s rack gear as far as routing

Within a modeler. Apparently you missed that.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Within a modeler. Apparently you missed that.

Super surprised the Nux Amp Academy and Zoom MS50 combo can't do Bob Bradshaw rig.

 

[GTR37]

Within a modeler. Apparently you missed that.

You can the Fractal has a million ways to route things
That’s why huge racks guys
Like Steve Stevens , Steve VAI
Alex Lifeson use them

 

[Sascha Franck]

You can the Fractal has a million ways to route things

You clearly didn't even bother to read the example I've written. Thanks for nothing.

 

[Will Chen]

You can the Fractal has a million ways to route things
That’s why huge racks guys
Like Steve Stevens , Steve VAI
Alex Lifeson use them

I believe his goal is an analog rack like interface with many dedicated controls. I used to feel that way way, way, way back. But GUI's have gotten so incredibly good that I've long move past that desire. Given younger generations having no desire for such an interface due to literally growing up with GUI's on phones/tablets, I imagine the market would be extremely small for this style interface with little benefit over existing analog solutions.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I believe his goal is an analog rack like interface with many dedicated controls.

That's one part. Another part is described in post #135.

 

[GTR37]

I believe his goal is an analog rack like interface with many dedicated controls. I used to feel that way way, way, way back. But GUI's have gotten so incredibly good that I've long move past that desire. Given younger generations having no desire for such an interface due to literally growing up with GUI's on phones/tablets, I imagine the market would be extremely small for this style interface with little benefit over existing analog solutions.

I agree , that’s why I mentioned the ROI ,the guitar segment of the market is already so small that no company is going to do something
Unless it’s highly profitable or innovative
I am not saying these ideas are not good and important to some but if it can’t be marketed to a Large audience no one is going to spend R&D dollars ,

 

[Sascha Franck]

I am not saying these ideas are not good and important to some but if it can’t be marketed to a Large audience no one is going to spend R&D dollars ,

Some of it would only require properly programmed software = not too much R&D dollars.

 

[Foxmeister]

So, in your book it's a good thing that modern modelers can't even remotely do what rigs could 40 years ago?

Modern modellers can already do far, far more than the vast majority of rigs from 40 years ago could do.

There are also lots of things that modern modellers can do that the rack rigs you are referring to cannot do.

Personally, I don't even think it is a case of being a "good thing" or a "bad thing" - for many, myself included, it is an entirely irrelevant thing.

YMMV of course, and that's fine, but I don't think the big players in the modelling scene are going to lose any sleep over this particular issue.

 

[Will Chen]

That's one part. Another part is described in post #135.

Just one example (and I'm doing it just like that with my loopswitcher based setup): I can preselect what's happening withing one loop (in various ways even) and that loop will then only exist as an "on/off entity" within the rest of the patch organisation. Example: You have a modulation loop with a Moebius inside and select some presets straight on the unit. The unit itself however will only become audible on patch 09 of your controller (because that's where the loop is active). Very simple, very straightforward, completely impossible on any modeler (without using external hardware of course).

You can do this on the AXE III today if you really wanted, I just think most users would rather have loop selection built into scene selection so rather than preselecting external loops and then hitting a secondary switch to enable/bypass that whole path, a single footswitch would select a scene where the desired loops are active. Of course, most Fractal users find that it replaces a lot of their outboard gear so probably don't travel down that path, but it's there if you really want it.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Modern modellers can already do far, far more than the vast majority of rigs from 40 years ago could do.

Irrelevant. They can't do the things I mentioned.

 

[Sascha Franck]

You can do this on the AXE III today if you really wanted

Ok, please elaborate.
And no, I'm not talking about using outboard equipment.

 

[Will Chen]

Ok, please elaborate.
And no, I'm not talking about using outboard equipment.

Assuming I'm understanding you correctly...Depends on how deep you want to go, but since you don't need loops, here's a sample layout in the FM3. Now there's not enough switches to do what you want so you'd need an additional controller, but in this hypothetical I have footswitches dedicated to mixer 1 and mixer 2 which A/B (C in the pre mixer block) the main path vs the secondary path. Then I assigned dedicated switches to each effect to enable/bypass, but these don't impact the main signal unless enabled using the switch connected to the mixer block. So, this allows one to pre configure which effects they want active, and then use a "master" switch or 2 to enable/disable them.

EDIT: Sorry the pick is in reverse, the mixer has to come after the effects but it still works as I described.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Headrush Looperboard?

 

[Will Chen]

Ok, please elaborate.
And no, I'm not talking about using outboard equipment.

And a secondary scenario, again assuming an outboard additional controller, where the post effects have a toggle bypass on the post mixer block, but we assign expression pedals to each effects level control with the mix set at 100% for real time control of parallel processing of everything and then a master bypass. Fractal stuff is extremely flexible in terms of signal chains and switching.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Yeah, I was already suspecting that FAS stuff would get closest. Still, this would just work per patch. In my proposed scenario, I can switch patches with the "loop content" staying intact globally.

 

[Will Chen]

Yeah, I was already suspecting that FAS stuff would get closest. Still, this would just work per patch. In my proposed scenario, I can switch patches with the "loop content" staying intact globally.

To some degree you can do this in the Boss GT and even the HX Stomp. The below pic Switch 1 is set up to A/B the split, switch 2 toggle bypass mod, and switch 3 toggle bypass delay. I'm just not sure your use case is a path many choose, but the devices support it. Which unit do you use which doesn't support your use case?

EDIT: And regarding switching patches...Fractal supports up to 8 scenes (with scene ignore) and 4 channels per block (most blocks, couple only 2 on the FM3). Not sure why you'd even need to switch presets if you're looking for footswitch control at the level you've described.