The Gear Forum designs a next-gen digital modeler!

[Orvillain]

I'm not even remotely trying to be elitist - but in case someone playing live might not even understand, how would someone not gigging do better?

Like I said, neither Bob Bradshaw nor Pete Cornish are musicians and don't play live. They've toured with bands as techs, sure. But that isn't the same thing. The point is... they're engineers, and solved problems. Ergo - someone online who may not have the extensive gigging history that you seem to have, but is more biased towards thinking along engineering lines, has just as much validity to their arguments and opinions as you do.

No getting around it - when you talk about someone not having life experience so how could they understand... you are by definition being elitist.

 

[DrewJD82]

Ok, so get me banned. That's part of it as well. Gotta say it's looking good already.

No one said a word about banning anyone. This is gaslighting.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Then no, you don’t understand it.

How did I know you wouldn’t be able to answer with a simple “Yes” or ”No”?

No, you don't understand what I was describing. Very clearly. Even what Will Chen was describing would only get you somewhat closer, but not even remotely in the "ok, now it's not an issue anymore" ballpark.

 

[DrewJD82]

I’m all out of f*cks to give on this one. I’d rather stub my toe on random sh*t in my apartment. Have fun with this one, ya’ll.

Edit- anyone got Cliff’s Mt. Dunning Krueger meme? You won’t get banned for posting it.

 

[Sascha Franck]

No one said a word about banning anyone. This is gaslighting.

Wasn't even meant that way. But some folks already act exactly as that was precisely what they're wishing for.

 

[Orvillain]

A loop in the signal path with some modulation FX slapped into.

Example: You have a modulation loop with a Moebius inside and select some presets straight on the unit. The unit itself however will only become audible on patch 09 of your controller (because that's where the loop is active). Very simple, very straightforward, completely impossible on any modeler (without using external hardware of course)

I really need to clarify this for my brain....

1. Modulation pedal in a loop.
2. Select some presets on the pedal itself.
3. But the pedal isn't active until the modeller/multi-fx makes the loop active.
4. Switching presets to bring that external pedal into the signal path and back out again.


How are even the most basic modellers not capable of this?? A Boss GT1000-Core does this. A Helix Stomp does this. You don't even need a Helix Floor nor a Fractal Axe FX III to do it. You can even do it without an external pedal, and you don't even need scenes or snapshots. Just use presets and name or number them appropriately.

I truly truly truly truly do not understand how you can be saying this stuff. The only thing I can think of is that you've not described the problem correctly. That's all I got.

 

[Sascha Franck]

And fwiw, I have no idea how this even turned into that kinda mess. What I was describing is pretty much provable. You can find workarounds, yes. You may not bother, yes. You may think.im an idiot for bothering, yes. All fine with me. But telling me something would work when it clearly isn't - uhm.

 

[Sascha Franck]

How are even the most basic modellers not capable of this?

They are. But only once you use external devices.

 

[Foxmeister]

I’m all out of f*cks to give on this one.

 

[laxu]

Still at the gig, so typing on the phone.
Anyhow, here's something I'm doing o n *each and every* gig. This is just an excerpt, things get multiplied once more devices are involved.

Patch 1: Dry overdriven sound.
Patch 2: Same overdriven sound with the Stomp working as a delay/verb unit activated.

I'm typically using 4 different delays/verbs. 3 are pretty constantly the same, I may modify the 4th whenever I feel like or need to.
I preselect these so I don't need any extra main patches or scenes or whatever.

To get the same sounds from the Helix, I'd need 5 snapshots already. Alternatively, I'd put the FX on a switchable parallel path. In that case, I'd need 3-4 switches to switch the FX blocks on that path.

So, that's 5 switches gone already. Now imagine I wanted to do similar things with more FX involved. You'd quickly reach an amount of 30-40 switches.

Alternatively, I may use multiple patches with those FX variations preprogrammed (quite absurd in case there's some FX I only use super rarely, but hey...).
This however would require global blocks as a prerequisite - as I always want to have global access to my "amp channel" settings. So that'd automatically rule out all modelers but the Axe FX and the GT-1000. And it'd still be "vastly" less flexible than what I described above.

To get you some numbers: my rather mediocre pedalboard has 2 main amp channels. Then there's boosted versions of each. Then there's delay versions of each. And then there's modulated versions of each (again around 4).
And then there's the drive loop with 5 drives in it.

Just combining all drive settings (5) with all possible spatial settings (5, off plus 4 x on) and all modulations (5, off plus 4 x on) results in 5x5x5 possible sound variations. That's 225 already.

So, your turn to tell me which modeler would be able to do this.

I think you could get pretty far with an Axe-Fx 3 + FC-12 with a kitchen sink preset.

The tools:

• Each block has 4 channels so 4 unique models of that type, or same model with different settings.
• 8 scenes for switching combinations of these with one button.
• Per channel "scene ignore" for most blocks which basically doesn't change the state of that block if you switch scenes.
• 24 per preset placeholders which can be programmed to do a whole bunch of stuff on a per-preset basis instead of having e.g a fixed set of functions. These can be assigned to footswitches.
• 8 footswitch layouts, each user programmable as you please. As an example my main one is 4 per preset switches, 4 scenes, tuner, tap tempo, a few switches to different layouts and then hold functions for some of the buttons.
• 5 rows of parallel routing where each row can have multiple sets of parallel routes.
• Mixer blocks can be used to control which rows send signal, how they are panned. 4 channels on these too.
• Per preset and global performance quick access control from front panel for 10 per preset controls and 10 global controls.
• Global blocks. 8 per effects instance (e.g Amp 1 vs Amp 2 each have 8 global blocks).

As an example, you could have one layout switch the 8 scenes for you for preset fx on/off/channel combinations. Then you could have another layout that works like turning individual stomp boxes on/off. These could also have channel changes either toggles, inc/dec etc.

I'm not saying it can do everything exactly like you want, but all of us adapt our workflow to something that works for us.

PS. Mods, could you separate this to another thread if that's anyway feasible to do? Maybe clean up the few pages of useless bickering too.

 

[Orvillain]

They are. But only once you use external devices.

I have some presets on my Helix that I only use when I enable the "spillover" option in preferences. This enables the unit to have seamless spillover when switching presets, at the expense of sacrificing one DSP path.

So.... I have a preset with a reverse delay in it... but bypassed.
I have another preset with the same reverse delay in it... but enabled.
I have another preset with a Hall reverb and a digital delay in it... but bypassed.
I have yet another preset with a hall reverb and digital delay in it - same settings - with both enabled.
I can switch between all of these seamlessly.

How does that not address your needs?

 

[JiveTurkey]

Ok, so get me banned. That's part of it as well. Gotta say it's looking good already.

No banning suggested at all. Getting along with people and having a sense of humor are skills you need to work on 100% more than repeatedly espousing whatever oddball modeler requirements you're dreaming up.

 

[Orvillain]

I think you could get pretty far with an Axe-Fx 3 + FC-12 with a kitchen sink preset.

The tools:

• Each block has 4 channels so 4 unique models of that type, or same model with different settings.
• 8 scenes for switching combinations of these with one button.
• Per channel "scene ignore" for most blocks which basically doesn't change the state of that block if you switch scenes.
• 24 per preset placeholders which can be programmed to do a whole bunch of stuff on a per-preset basis instead of having e.g a fixed set of functions. These can be assigned to footswitches.
• 8 footswitch layouts, each user programmable as you please. As an example my main one is 4 per preset switches, 4 scenes, tuner, tap tempo, a few switches to different layouts and then hold functions for some of the buttons.
• 5 rows of parallel routing where each row can have multiple sets of parallel routes.
• Mixer blocks can be used to control which rows send signal, how they are panned. 4 channels on these too.
• Per preset and global performance quick access control from front panel for 10 per preset controls and 10 global controls.
• Global blocks. 8 per effects instance (e.g Amp 1 vs Amp 2 each have 8 global blocks).

As an example, you could have one layout switch the 8 scenes for you for preset fx on/off/channel combinations. Then you could have another layout that works like turning individual stomp boxes on/off. These could also have channel changes either toggles, inc/dec etc.

I'm not saying it can do everything exactly like you want, but all of us adapt our workflow to something that works for us.

PS. Mods, could you separate this to another thread if that's anyway feasible to do? Maybe clean up the few pages of useless bickering too.

Don't forget, you can switch channels from the FC12 for the block, by assigning the channel switching to a press+hold manouvre, freeing up a footswitch.

 

[Gearzilla]

 

[Jack Burton]

PS. Mods, could you separate this to another thread if that's anyway feasible to do? Maybe clean up the few pages of useless bickering too.

Let’s not make requests like this from within a thread.

Thanks

 

[Sascha Franck]

I think you could get pretty far with an Axe-Fx 3 + FC-12 with a kitchen sink preset.

Yeah (and thanks for the description). Also, as it's got global blocks, you could create further variations of the same patch without sacrificing global tweakability.
Still, it'd require some tinkering, and not the best overview, either (on my cheap MS-50 I just cycle through patches and instantly know what's happening when it's getting activated (quite important for me as I'm using it for very different things).

And btw, thanks again, you seem to be the only person to completely understand what I was going for.

 

[Sascha Franck]

How does that not address your needs?

Just as one thing: Amp settings don't stay the same when I tweak one patch.

 

[the-trooper]

You know what would make this thread picture perfect?
Knobs in HX edit

 

[jellodog]

I'm making epic cinematic emo-poetry art-metal

And it truly is EPIC, man.

 

[James Freeman]

This thread sucks.