The eagle has landed

[metropolis_4]

You were there when I doubted the Badlander and look where we are now!

A thread about your next amp?


Sounds like all in all not a bad first gig with a new amp. It always takes a couple to start settling in. Congrats!

Also I like that you’ve matched your bag to your rig

 

[JiveTurkey]

A thread about your next amp?


Sounds like all in all not a bad first gig with a new amp. It always takes a couple to start settling in. Congrats!

Also I like that you’ve matched your bag to your rig

I still have the Badlander. Was that not public knowledge? Just A/B again. They both bring something consistent but slightly different. The el34s in the BL are perfect. Especially cranked. It's not night and day between it and the 6l6s in the VII but it a nice little warm guitar blanket

Edited for I know I am historically a horrific gear flipper. No denying that. The BL has stuck around for a good bit by my standards though. So has the Stomp, despite efforts to sell it. I realized I couldn't do without it. Size/functionality wins out in it's case.

I think the VII live test will be getting it dialed in and NOT having to constantly reach back and think I need to be tweaking something. That is certainly the challenge at hand.

 

[Badonkey Kong]

I still have the Badlander. Was that not public knowledge? Just A/B again. They both bring something consistent but slightly different. The el34s in the BL are perfect. Especially cranked. It's not night and day between it and the 6l6s in the VII but it a nice little warm guitar blanket

Edited for I know I am historically a horrific gear flipper. No denying that. The BL has stuck around for a good bit by my standards though. So has the Stomp, despite efforts to sell it. I realized I couldn't do without it. Size/functionality wins out in it's case.

I think the VII live test will be getting it dialed in and NOT having to constantly reach back and think I need to be tweaking something. That is certainly the challenge at hand.

That was my problem with the V25. Well, that and there was no way in hell of getting enough low end out of 2C+ mode, which I think is what led me to futzing with the damn EQ all of the time.

But ultimately I think you'll get the GEQ set and forgotten. I'm getting there with the IICP module. I was there until I started working with the Amped 1 as my power amp instead of the 5153's power section.

 

[GuitarBilly]

I think the VII live test will be getting it dialed in and NOT having to constantly reach back and think I need to be tweaking something. That is certainly the challenge at hand

I have made this pact with myself a long time ago that after soundcheck I just won't touch the amp unless there's something seriously wrong with it.

Just step away from it and perform. The little extra high or gain or whatever you think it's missing It's not a worthy distraction.
And a lot of times I though the amp tone was less than ideal but when I listened to the show later it was actually fine. And I was glad I wasn't turning around to tweak the amp all the time.

It's negative Nike: Just don't do it.

 

[texhex]

Bar gig. Ignore the spaghetti pile.

No time to dial in beforehand because dinner crowd who apparently doesn't like amps blasting their face

Gig was great. Had a blast as did the crowd. Still working on tones. Last Mk amp I dialed in at a gig was a studio preamp into a Laney power amp probably 20 years ago. I was tweaking between songs a number of times.

The GEQ is a trap. I'll be rethinking my methods with it live. I'll also be rethinking the huge footswitch and just repurpose my empty Stomp switch for channel select duties.

Overall; good experience!

 

[Baba]

This is visually pleasing to me

 

[PBGas]

Glad the gig went well JT!

Used mine last night at a corporate gig at the Delta Hotel in T.O.
The verdict:
Fan-frigging-tastic! Through my 2 - 1x12 Mesa widebody cabs was just pure beef and punch.

I love this amp! Sounds amazing live as well and the direct out to the board was outstanding.
The sound guy loved it as well and was asking me all kinds of questions about the amp.
I also got my new Shure GLXD16+ wireless units on Friday and used them yesterday evening and for the first time, it was killer with no interference!

Sorry...I forgot to take a picture of my board....I have a Classic JR with the H90, Shure wireless, digitech drop, VII footswitch, Crybaby Jr. and a Decimator mini.

So, this is it for me along with my Badlander. However, for gigs, I don't want to be bringing both heads but this one was a very high paying gig so I didn't want to have anything go wrong, hence why I had the second amp on standby and ready to go. There were about 500 people in attendance and the dance floor in front of us was packed. Always great when playing live!

I have this on the way next week as my backup and for playing those places that are uber small for 5 of us to be sharing a stage!
I can run this via 4CM to my board right in front of me and run a longer speaker cable to the back. Awesome!

 

[JiveTurkey]

I have made this pact with myself a long time ago that after soundcheck I just won't touch the amp unless there's something seriously wrong with it.

Just step away from it and perform. The little extra high or gain or whatever you think it's missing It's not a worthy distraction.
And a lot of times I though the amp tone was less than ideal but when I listened to the show later it was actually fine. And I was glad I wasn't turning around to tweak the amp all the time.

It's negative Nike: Just don't do it.

Agreed. Only hiccup is that I do have to adjust amp master levels first song or two as we don't run our amps through the PA most of the time and we don't do soundchecks as the band always sets up in waves. I'll point the amp more in my direction if needed as well. Overall from an OCD POV; there's more reason to make a self-pact over in a Mark style amp

 

[JiveTurkey]

Glad the gig went well JT!

Used mine last night at a corporate gig at the Delta Hotel in T.O.
The verdict:
Fan-frigging-tastic! Through my 2 - 1x12 Mesa widebody cabs was just pure beef and punch.

I love this amp! Sounds amazing live as well and the direct out to the board was outstanding.
The sound guy loved it as well and was asking me all kinds of questions about the amp.
I also got my new Shure GLXD16+ wireless units on Friday and used them yesterday evening and for the first time, it was killer with no interference!

Sorry...I forgot to take a picture of my board....I have a Classic JR with the H90, Shure wireless, digitech drop, VII footswitch, Crybaby Jr. and a Decimator mini.

So, this is it for me along with my Badlander. However, for gigs, I don't want to be bringing both heads but this one was a very high paying gig so I didn't want to have anything go wrong, hence why I had the second amp on standby and ready to go. There were about 500 people in attendance and the dance floor in front of us was packed. Always great when playing live!

View attachment 6501View attachment 6502

I have this on the way next week as my backup and for playing those places that are uber small for 5 of us to be sharing a stage!
I can run this via 4CM to my board right in front of me and run a longer speaker cable to the back. Awesome!

Are those V30 loaded cabs? Rigs look That LP is

 

[PBGas]

Are those V30 loaded cabs? Rigs look That LP is

Yup! V30 cabs. Cabs are brand new but the V30s are from early 2000 so they sound .

 

[GuitarBilly]

Agreed. Only hiccup is that I do have to adjust amp master levels first song or two as we don't run our amps through the PA most of the time and we don't do soundchecks as the band always sets up in waves. I'll point the amp more in my direction if needed as well. Overall from an OCD POV; there's more reason to make a self-pact over in a Mark style amp

This doesn't seem to be the right amp for this type of situation, honestly. Mark amps are a lot of things but plug and play is not one of them. It does seem like the Badlander would fit that scenario much better since it's a simpler amp to dial in quickly.

 

[la szum]

The GEQ is a trap. I'll be rethinking my methods with it live.

Overall; good experience!

I been beating that drum off and on for years. Most people just leave it on all the time assuming that's how
best to use a Mrak Series amp. And for a certain tone/tones it can be. But the "trap" is how obnoxious it
can be in a band mix---especially if another guitar is in play. Hyping the Low-End, and cratering those Mids
is not the Highway to Tonal Nirvana. Sometimes it is just a Dead End, or a Cul-De-Sac.

Glad you had fun!

 

[JiveTurkey]

I been beating that drum off and on for years. Most people just leave it on all the time assuming that's how
best to use a Mrak Series amp. And for a certain tone/tones it can be. But the "trap" is how obnoxious it
can be in a band mix---especially if another guitar is in play. Hyping the Low-End, and cratering those Mids
is not the Highway to Tonal Nirvana. Sometimes it is just a Dead End, or a Cul-De-Sac.

Glad you had fun!

Yeah I sat with it up loud for a bit yesterday. Channel controls with flat eq engaged with just minor cuts seemed to be the easiest to blend into a mix option vs. extreme EQ that you build the rest of the band mix around. Our next gig is Cinco De Mayo and I should have a much better handle on it.

 

[GreatGreen]

The GEQ isn't really a "crutch" of the Mark amp so much as it is simply "the tonestack" just like every other amp has. Turning it off is the equivalent of setting the knobs on most any other amp at noon or, more accurately, because Marks are naturally "megaphone-through-an-AM-radio" mid heavy, turning off the GEQ is mostly like setting any other amp at bass 3, mids 10, treble 3.

Using the GEQ and cranking the bass slider as high as it will go and slamming the mid slider down is just about the same thing as setting bass 10, mids 0, treb 10 on a Marshall style amp, except not quite as bad on a Mark because again, Mark amps are such massively mid heavy amps that you're only mostly scooping them out when you do the classic V thing, and they can still sound relatively balanced as long as you don't overdo it.

But even then, Mark amp GEQ's have strange curves where they really don't do anything until most of the way through their travel. The vast majority of their effect happens in a very small area towards the extremes of the slider sweep, so it's very hard to tell just how much the EQ is shaping the tone of the amp by just looking at it.

Bottom line is that you should dial with your ears. Starting a Mark out with a slight V, not too extreme, is about the same as starting out with any other amp with the knobs at noon. Feel free to tweak from there. That's what the controls are for.

 

[JiveTurkey]

The GEQ isn't really a "crutch" of the Mark amp so much as it is simply "the tonestack" just like every other amp has. Turning it off is the equivalent of setting the knobs on most any other amp at noon or, more accurately, because Marks are naturally "megaphone-through-an-AM-radio" mid heavy, turning off the GEQ is mostly like setting any other amp at bass 3, mids 10, treble 3.

Using the GEQ and cranking the bass slider as high as it will go and slamming the mid slider down is just about the same thing as setting bass 10, mids 0, treb 10 on a Marshall style amp, except not quite as bad on a Mark because again, Mark amps are such massively mid heavy amps that you're only mostly scooping them out when you do the classic V thing, and they can still sound relatively balanced as long as you don't overdo it.

But even then, Mark amp GEQ's have strange curves where they really don't do anything until most of the way through their travel. The vast majority of their effect happens in a very small area towards the extremes of the slider sweep, so it's very hard to tell just how much the EQ is shaping the tone of the amp by just looking at it.

Bottom line is that you should dial with your ears. Starting a Mark out with a slight V, not too extreme, is about the same as starting out with any other amp with the knobs at noon. Feel free to tweak from there. That's what the controls are for.

I wouldn't call it a crutch either necessarily. I just need a bit more time in a band context with it is all.

 

[Desertdweller]

Bar gig. Ignore the spaghetti pile.

No time to dial in beforehand because dinner crowd who apparently doesn't like amps blasting their face

Gig was great. Had a blast as did the crowd. Still working on tones. Last Mk amp I dialed in at a gig was a studio preamp into a Laney power amp probably 20 years ago. I was tweaking between songs a number of times.

The GEQ is a trap. I'll be rethinking my methods with it live. I'll also be rethinking the huge footswitch and just repurpose my empty Stomp switch for channel select duties.

Overall; good experience!

Would you just run a MIDI cable out of the stomp please and ditch the V pedal?

 

[JiveTurkey]

Would you just run a MIDI cable out of the stomp please and ditch the V pedal?

Already did! Ready to go in that regard for the next gig

 

[JiveTurkey]

So last night; I was planning on doing some power tube swapping between the VII and BL. You have to pretty much pull the chassis to get the tubes out of the VII ,so that idea got thrown quickly as I didn't feel like messing with it. For now, at least. I might try into Badlander---send---VII fx return to see how that blend does at some point. Not needing a load with these amps is awesome.

I did end up using the dry line out to send to the FM9. Cab emulation and post effects then out to my interface. Man; I REALLY liked this for that purpose. Very nice experience. Though to the FM9's credit; it is great on it's own using Boogie amp models for this. So there is that

 

[la szum]

The GEQ isn't really a "crutch" of the Mark amp so much as it is simply "the tonestack" just like every other amp has. Turning it off is the equivalent of setting the knobs on most any other amp at noon or, more accurately, because Marks are naturally "megaphone-through-an-AM-radio" mid heavy, turning off the GEQ is mostly like setting any other amp at bass 3, mids 10, treble 3.

Using the GEQ and cranking the bass slider as high as it will go and slamming the mid slider down is just about the same thing as setting bass 10, mids 0, treb 10 on a Marshall style amp, except not quite as bad on a Mark because again, Mark amps are such massively mid heavy amps that you're only mostly scooping them out when you do the classic V thing, and they can still sound relatively balanced as long as you don't overdo it.

But even then, Mark amp GEQ's have strange curves where they really don't do anything until most of the way through their travel. The vast majority of their effect happens in a very small area towards the extremes of the slider sweep, so it's very hard to tell just how much the EQ is shaping the tone of the amp by just looking at it.

Bottom line is that you should dial with your ears. Starting a Mark out with a slight V, not too extreme, is about the same as starting out with any other amp with the knobs at noon. Feel free to tweak from there. That's what the controls are for.

Not to quibble. But to quibble. I don't think that is wholly accurate Intel. GEQ and Tonestack is an apples
and oranges conversation. I'd never equate the two.


GEQ is post distortion/preamp.... so it acts differently than any kind of active or passive "tonestack"
on other tube amps.

And I do think that the GEQ can become a crutch. Lots of players leave it on by default and forget that
there is also a GREAT Mark-series amp with a lot of tonal options available BEFORE you get to post-distortion
by using the amp's tonestack in the preamp.

That was my only point. You don't have to assume it needs to be "On" and used in the standard V config.
There are many ways to use the GEQ---often as you would in post-production, or by micing an amp and
then using channel strips, EQs, and Mic Pres to further sculpt the sound. It can be dramatic. It can also be
subtle. 90% of Mark users, I would contend, forget about the subtle aspects... or leaving it "OFF,"... and
fail to discover all the other great tones in those amps that are right at their fingertips, too.

 

[GreatGreen]

Not to quibble. But to quibble. I don't think that is wholly accurate Intel. GEQ and Tonestack is an apples
and oranges conversation. I'd never equate the two.


GEQ is post distortion/preamp.... so it acts differently than any kind of active or passive "tonestack"
on other tube amps.

And I do think that the GEQ can become a crutch. Lots of players leave it on by default and forget that
there is also a GREAT Mark-series amp with a lot of tonal options available BEFORE you get to post-distortion
by using the amp's tonestack in the preamp.

That was my only point. You don't have to assume it needs to be "On" and used in the standard V config.
There are many ways to use the GEQ---often as you would in post-production, or by micing an amp and
then using channel strips, EQs, and Mic Pres to further sculpt the sound. It can be dramatic. It can also be
subtle. 90% of Mark users, I would contend, forget about the subtle aspects... or leaving it "OFF,"... and
fail to discover all the other great tones in those amps that are right at their fingertips, too.

All good friend.

I guess my response would be: where do you think the tonestack is located in *most* amps, and how is the Mark's GEQ different, really?

I suppose we might be getting bogged down by semantics here. I don't think of the Mark series' TMB controls as the amp's "tonestack" because they do an entirely different job than most other high gain tonestacks. The TMB controls in a Mark operate more like how most players use a GEQ before an amp's input, and the Mark's GEQ operates more like how most players use the tonestack in most other high gain amps, so that's how I think of it and talk about it.

To me it seems like the biggest problem is the labeling. If instead of "Treble, Mid, and Bass," the Mark series named the controls "Bright, Grind, and Fat" or something, then these conversations would be easier and people also probably wouldn't complain so much that Mark amps are hard to dial in because they wouldn't be confused by Mesa's strange decision to take the design language of the classic TMB 3-knob configuration that is almost universally understood to do the same specific job in every single other amp ever made, and place it in an entirely different part of the circuit in a Mark than in those other amps, but still uses the same naming convention and look as in all those other amps.

What I'm saying is that the GEQ in a Mark series amp is placed in the same relative place in the circuit (post preamp distortion) and serves exactly the same purpose as the Treble/Mid/Bass controls on most other high gain amps, so to me, that's the tonestack. The only real difference is that it's active instead of passive, and has 5 bands instead of three. Otherwise it does the exact same job as the TMB controls in a Recto, JCM 800, 5150, Ecstasy, Uberschall, etc. So, the Mark's GEQ is effectively its tonestack, while its three TMB knobs per channel are just simple pre-gain narrow band EQ level controls that determine the character of the distortion.

I do agree though that with most amps, even if you keep the post-EQ neutral, there's still a whole world of tones you can get just by manipulating the gain and EQ curve of the guitar as it goes into the amp's distortion stages, whether by pre-EQ pedal or by a Mark's TMB controls.