Stick with Mac or move to Windows?

paisleywookiee said:
Windows 7 hasn't been supported for over 7 years though. 10 is up this October. Meanwhile, a machine from 2018 (Mac Mini, anyway) is supported today. I fail to see the problem. Do they hold on to hardware as long as Windows machines? Probably not. Do they drop support after 5 years? No. Can you get half of what you paid out of a Windows machine after 5 years? No. You're getting a 1/4, if anything at all.
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thats what im saying. the machine got a NEW os on it, ran another 7 years. the hardware? all still running. need more ram? add it. its got enough ports for new drives. need more? add a card. something breaks, its modular. updated monitors if i needed, and dual support, no probs. you dont resell it. you just keep updating and using it with parts. thats the selling point.

look macs are pretty. and folks love that- but they arent super modular. theyre gorgeous. but if i lose ports or a card, a monitor or hell any part, i can often drive and buy them same day. and being offline, i suspect i wont need to do much but record, and not need much intervention from windows, and sure not a hardware monopoly.
 
newholland said:
thats what im saying. the machine got a NEW os on it, ran another 7 years. the hardware? all still running. need more ram? add it. its got enough ports for new drives. need more? add a card. something breaks, its modular. updated monitors if i needed, and dual support, no probs. you dont resell it. you just keep updating and using it with parts. thats the selling point.

look macs are pretty. and folks love that- but they arent super modular. theyre gorgeous. but if i lose ports or a card, a monitor or hell any part, i can often drive and buy them same day. and being offline, i suspect i wont need to do much but record, and not need much intervention from windows, and sure not a hardware monopoly.
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It’s only the selling point if someone’s buying. Like I said, swapping crap over the years and having nothing to really show for it doesn’t appeal to me anymore.
If you’re a laptop user, Windows laptops generally are no more modular than Macs are anyway. I’ve got an EliteBook here that I can’t change the RAM, just the SSD. Same age as my Mac M1, but it’s worth nothing.
If I were to go back to windows, I’d probably do a Framework.
 
paisleywookiee said:
It’s only the selling point if someone’s buying. Like I said, swapping crap over the years and having nothing to really show for it doesn’t appeal to me anymore.
If you’re a laptop user, Windows laptops generally are no more modular than Macs are anyway. I’ve got an EliteBook here that I can’t change the RAM, just the SSD. Same age as my Mac M1, but it’s worth nothing.
If I were to go back to windows, I’d probably do a Framework.
Click to expand...

thats very true- i am talkin full size boxes. i used a laptop at first, and portability was nice.. but i ditched that as soon as they stopped having firewire ports on pcs... so around 2008 😄

those frameworks are way cool though! i can absolutely get behind that kind of thinking, and with a powered usbc hub, it could possibly work for a whole lotta things. pci ports and big usb banks really are lifesavers though!
 
Frodebro said:
I’ve never encountered that, and my timeline with Macs of my own goes back to around OS8 or so.
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Aww guys, come on. Apple's planned obsolescence stunts are incredibly wellknown and ending OS updates is an integral part of it. 5 years OS support, maybe 3 more years security updates and that was it. Sure, if you buy new machines quicker than that, you won't be affected. But I could've easily used my Mac Pro for some more years but as I want/need to stay up to date with some things, it simply wasn't possible.

And it's even worse in case some hardware is shot. Needed a new fan (a friggin fan, not some esoteric stuff) for my 2008 Macbook in 2013, went to two resellers and an Apple Store, all told me the same. "Sorry sir, we only support hardware for 5 years". Yes, sometimes you might be luckier than me, but especially when you're using their cheaper ("cheaper" - harrharr...) machines, this is what they treat you like.
Now, back then I could at least exchange the fan myself (took me almost half a year to get a proper one, though), today it's impossible.
So, if, for example, the battery of my Macbook Air will stop to work after 5.5 years, I can simply trash the entire machine - these days you can't even run them with a PSU only anymore. Battery dead = laptop dead.

Regardless of them having great computers and a great OS, Apple as a company is an incredible shitshow, solely driven by greed. Incredible greed.
 
I don’t have a problem with 5-6 years of OS support, and 3 more for security updates. Hardware is supported for repair for 7 years before Apple considers it “obsolete”. You either got lied to, or the rules are different in Germany.
Parts are actually way easier to find for obsolete Macs because there’s less breadth of hardware. I replaced speakers and a fan in a 2011 MBP without issue.
 
paisleywookiee said:
Well, regardless of what Air you have, I can replace the battery for you this week, if you want to come to Chicago and share a pizza and some beers! (Different mugs though. I’m not that friendly).
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I would really only come for the latter two - and yes, I know the battery can be replaced if you're lucky, but it's defenitely not for the faint hearted anymore. Let alone you'll have to get a proper replacement in the first place, which can become a nightmare already.
Fwiw, IMO it's inacceptable that you can't run any Macbooks anymore once the battery is dead. There's not exactly a technical reason behind that.
 
Sascha Franck said:
I would really only come for the latter two - and yes, I know the battery can be replaced if you're lucky, but it's defenitely not for the faint hearted anymore. Let alone you'll have to get a proper replacement in the first place, which can become a nightmare already.
Fwiw, IMO it's inacceptable that you can't run any Macbooks anymore once the battery is dead. There's not exactly a technical reason behind that.
Click to expand...
I agree, that’s dumb it won’t run on AC only.
 
Sascha Franck said:
Question: Do you need to be mobile?

Quickshoot recommendation: As you are using (and likely being familiar with) two Mac-only applications, you will very, very likely regret switching to another platform tons of times.

This is coming from someone hating Apple with a passion, yet using their computers kinda exclusively since 2007.
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No, I thought I would want it to be mobile when I first bought it. I haven't taken it anywhere in the almost 10 years I have had it so I can go with a desktop or tower. I do like having the extra screen the laptop gives me though. I have that and the 27" display. It is nice to be able to drag some things over to the laptop screen and do most of my work on the big screen.

The software cost of replacing the Mac only applications is something I am considering. I have another application that I would have to pay a cross grade fee to move over as well that I am factoring in. My plan is to start up a spreadsheet and try to figure out what all of the costs will be for both options and see what that looks like.

I have used a few DAW applications and am okay with moving to something else if needed. My biggest concern there is that I have virtual instruments and a host of the standard plugins that I need. I am not sure how many have the virtual instruments in them these days. I haven't looked around at DAWs for a few years. I also have not looked to see what add on I may be able to get that has them. I do have Steven Slate Drums that I can use with whatever I end up on.

I am also fine with moving to something else for video editing. I can find my way around an application without too much trouble. As long as they have decent help files I should be good.

I was doing some work on my system this weekend and pulled up activity monitor. I am using about 60% to 70% of the RAM in the system with everything open that I typically use at the same time. I probably have more time to think this over than I thought. I just thought that since I will have some money coming in that I could use for the upgrade in April that I may just do it. From what I am seeing, I can probably put that off for a decent while longer and see what is out there at that time.
 
If you can do without being mobile and just use the 27", the new M4 Mac Minis seem to be as good as a deal as it'll ever get in Apple land. Possibly no need to go for anything but the basic CPU model, the only thing to consider would be RAM and SSD size, in this case RAM being more important as the SSD space can easily be extended by adding an external one.
 
Sascha Franck said:
If you can do without being mobile and just use the 27", the new M4 Mac Minis seem to be as good as a deal as it'll ever get in Apple land. Possibly no need to go for anything but the basic CPU model, the only thing to consider would be RAM and SSD size, in this case RAM being more important as the SSD space can easily be extended by adding an external one.
Click to expand...
SSD is still important. Apple's new "Apple AI" nonsense takes like 9 GB of space whether you use it or not, and will likely eat more space as new OS updates get released. Eventually the operating system and stock apps etc will eat a good chunk of space.

I would not go with the 256 GB base model no matter what.

How it looks like on my M2 Max after 2 years:
  • /System ~17.5 GB. I'm still on MacOS Sonoma because I won't touch any new MacOS update before it's gotten a bunch of point releases to fix a pile of bugs they always have. But realistically you can add probably 10 GB for the AI crap plus other updates.
  • /Library ~95.7 GB. The biggest things here are Logic Pro samples, VST plugins and so on.
  • /Applications is ~50 GB.
  • /Users is ~320 GB. Granted, I have a lot of stuff here that normal users would not as the system gets used for work as well.
As you can see, just having your apps etc installed is likely to eat most of that 256 GB before user data, making you increasingly reliant on external drives. I'd bite the bullet and aim for at minimum 512 GB.
 
laxu said:
I would not go with the 256 GB base model no matter what.
Click to expand...

Defenitely not. I'd even say that 1TB is the minimum, simply because you just don't want to do your data housekeeping all the time.
Add to this that due to the SoC architecture, there's possibly more caching happening than ever before (which is also why you can get away with comparatively little RAM without ever noticing as the system will just try to use the SSD in case RAM is getting short whenever feasible), so you want a god chunk of free SSD space just for that already.
 
laxu said:
SSD is still important. Apple's new "Apple AI" nonsense takes like 9 GB of space whether you use it or not, and will likely eat more space as new OS updates get released. Eventually the operating system and stock apps etc will eat a good chunk of space.

I would not go with the 256 GB base model no matter what.

How it looks like on my M2 Max after 2 years:
  • /System ~17.5 GB. I'm still on MacOS Sonoma because I won't touch any new MacOS update before it's gotten a bunch of point releases to fix a pile of bugs they always have. But realistically you can add probably 10 GB for the AI crap plus other updates.
  • /Library ~95.7 GB. The biggest things here are Logic Pro samples, VST plugins and so on.
  • /Applications is ~50 GB.
  • /Users is ~320 GB. Granted, I have a lot of stuff here that normal users would not as the system gets used for work as well.
As you can see, just having your apps etc installed is likely to eat most of that 256 GB before user data, making you increasingly reliant on external drives. I'd bite the bullet and aim for at minimum 512 GB.
Click to expand...
I did go with the 256GB model as I’m on a strict budget in the winter. A lot of the stuff has to go on the internal drive but almost everything can be moved to the external, including all the added apps, logic libraries and personal home folders.

I have a 2TB external that cost about $125 rather than upgrading the Mac which would have cost an extra $800 ⁉️🤯

It’s working pretty well. And for $800 (mini + logic) it’s the bargain of the past 20 years. Logic alone is a really great deal for what all you get, it’s just hard to make the jump from something more intuitive like Ableton Live.
 
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