Stick with Mac or move to Windows?

considering how fast things are moving,
What is it that is "moving", that the average home computer user needs, is what I want to know? Srsly asking for examples here. I hate having to buy a new computer every 10 years to do the same things I use it for, which my main processor/RAM-intensive task is modelling construction projects in 3-D.
 
What is it that is "moving", that the average home computer user needs, is what I want to know? Srsly asking for examples here. I hate having to buy a new computer every 10 years to do the same things I use it for, which my main processor/RAM-intensive task is modelling construction projects in 3-D.
I was speaking specifically for myself, and I do not consider myself to be an"average home computer user", so the "moving" parts that I will be interested in are not what the average home computer user will need to worry about. For me, storage, speed, processing capabilities including graphics, AI advances which will in some cases involve hardware devoted chips in my imagination, my wants and needs. Those and more that I can not think of at the moment are the types of things I will likely want to take advantage of in less than 8-10 years because I believe that I will not be able to resist some of the advances in speed and power to more quickly accomplish my audio/video/programming tasks. That is what I am saying when I talk about things moving fast, in developments that I will want to take advantage of. But that is ME and that is the way I phrased that statement you quoted:
"I doubt that this build however will last [B][I][COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)]me[/COLOR][/I][/B] 8 years though considering how fast things are moving, but I sure love having the 4 M.2 slots on this board ;~))"
Not saying my current computers will be obsolete or unusable for some tasks, but I will likely take advantage of new technologies before 2031 which would be 8 years from my most recent build. I built my home theater PC in 2012 and it still fulfills my simpleton HT requests. All I ever did to it was upgrade to a SSD in 2015 or so.

Do you believe that construction projects in 3D will not advance significantly enough over the next 10 years that you will not be wanting to upgrade hardware to take advantage of the new developments? And that is not average home computer user stuff either. I loved playing with Chief Architect some years ago and if that was my trade, I would probably be getting a new computer every 2 years or so to take advantage of the improvements that new systems could give me (faster render times, smoother/faster moves throughout the modeling process, etc.). Anyway, for home user, their phone is enough for most of them and if it is not now, it will be in a very short time more than enough for most IMO, and even that is moving FAST ;~))
 
Do you believe that construction projects in 3D will not advance significantly enough over the next 10 years that you will not be wanting to upgrade hardware to take advantage of the new developments?
Fair enough. I have to eat a little "crow" here, because my latest 3D model has indeed run me up against a limitation.

There is a term used in Sketchup called 'Components', which are basically anything you model, that repeats. It could be a window framing sub-assembly. Make it a Component, and any changes you introduce will update across all components with that same name. They are in essence, small .skp files embedded w/i your main model. My current model, a 9000SF custom home, in which I've modelled all the framing, masonry, and exterior trim, has almost 200 Components.

They are also stored locally, so they can be readily accessed in future models, w/o having to draw them again, from scratch. I'm just starting to use this feature to speed up my modelling process.

There are separate windows you can access, in which you can see at a glance, certain attributes of your geometry. Click on a 2x4 edge, and in the "Entity Info" window, it will show how long that 2x4 is. Click on any 3-D object, such as a foundation slab, and it will show the cubic feet of that object. VERY useful for estimating purposes, especially if that object is anything other than a simple cube.

Open the 'Components' window in my latest model, and my computer crashes. My older models that have far less components do not do this. Although I may be able to upgrade my RAM, as I'm not sure if I have maxed them out. (I need to check, but for now I just don't use the Components Window.)

As for taking advantage of future advances in the tech, I suppose there are some things, that if the developers added, could be useful to me, like exporting a list of various entities into say a spreadsheet for pricing purposes.

I suppose my comment was a knee-jerk reaction, with the emphasis on 'jerk.' :sofa
 
it's a wash, mac cost way more $ but windows cost way more time. if i was pro I'd probably use mac to just do the job and know it will just work.

 but using windows it's a daily guarantee I'm gonna learn something i didn't know yesterday. cause something that worked yesterday is guaranteed to not work today. windows keeps me in a constant state of exploration. that's why they call it windows explorer. half a century later we still Lewis and Clarking the C drive to find and kill the Lost Ark of the Preference File
 
And I could easily squeeze out a few more years (like mentioned) if I wanted to and really stretch the dollars by say, getting a new video card (~$1K), new motherboard with bells n whistles, CPU, appropriate memory, (~$1K) etc

That last part? Can't do that at all with a Mac. Generally speaking, you simply can't buy a Mac motherboard (say for example, the presumed "M6" MOBO) with all the latest bells n whistles to replace your aging Mac's MOBO (say, the current "M4" MOBO).

You're stuck with the thing; frozen in technological time so to speak from the point when you purchased it. Once that "performance viability" clock runs out, you're forced to buy a brand new one (at the usual crazy premium Apple price) because they made it so your hands are tied with no other options.
PC is the kinda the same though. I bought an Intel 13600K system a few years back because it was massively cheaper than the equivalent AMDs,. I don't have any reasonable update path for this except replacing the motherboard and CPU. Buying any other Intel CPU compatible with this motherboard is not a sensible move (and might have cooling issues in my ITX case).

Sure, I can reuse a bunch of parts. You end up with a bit of a "ship of Theseus" system. Which can be still cheaper than buying a new Mac. But essentially you are building a new system and need to reinstall Windows from scratch etc.

If you keep upgrading part by part, eventually you run into that "replace mobo and CPU" issue. My previous AMD 3700X system was not adequate for the 2080 Ti -> 4090 GPU upgrade I did, and likely I'll want to upgrade the whole thing for a Nvidia 60 or 70 series or something.

My big beef with Apple is the pricing for disk space, and the inability to upgrade it yourself. It's the major failure point that will require you to buy an entire system if it fails. Now, to be fair, I still have SSD drives in use that are from like 2011 and still work fine so maybe it's not a realistic concern. I just wish they weren't so customer hostile in this regard.

Realistically if you buy a M4 system today, you might want to actually update it by the time they launch a M10 or something.
 
Fair enough. I have to eat a little "crow" here, because my latest 3D model has indeed run me up against a limitation.

There is a term used in Sketchup called 'Components', which are basically anything you model, that repeats. It could be a window framing sub-assembly. Make it a Component, and any changes you introduce will update across all components with that same name. They are in essence, small .skp files embedded w/i your main model. My current model, a 9000SF custom home, in which I've modelled all the framing, masonry, and exterior trim, has almost 200 Components.

They are also stored locally, so they can be readily accessed in future models, w/o having to draw them again, from scratch. I'm just starting to use this feature to speed up my modelling process.

There are separate windows you can access, in which you can see at a glance, certain attributes of your geometry. Click on a 2x4 edge, and in the "Entity Info" window, it will show how long that 2x4 is. Click on any 3-D object, such as a foundation slab, and it will show the cubic feet of that object. VERY useful for estimating purposes, especially if that object is anything other than a simple cube.

Open the 'Components' window in my latest model, and my computer crashes. My older models that have far less components do not do this. Although I may be able to upgrade my RAM, as I'm not sure if I have maxed them out. (I need to check, but for now I just don't use the Components Window.)

As for taking advantage of future advances in the tech, I suppose there are some things, that if the developers added, could be useful to me, like exporting a list of various entities into say a spreadsheet for pricing purposes.

I suppose my comment was a knee-jerk reaction, with the emphasis on 'jerk.' :sofa
I LOVE Sketchup! It is the most intuitive (for me) 3D modelling I have ever worked with. My first "touch" of 3D was with Autocad in 1992 or so. My favorite to work in ever (largely because I spent the most time learning it and it's incredible rendering engines for it's time) is Lightwave. But when I want to mock something up quick, even with all the training I did in Lightwave, I can do it faster in Sketchup. You are way more advanced than I am at Sketchup (and any other 3D program as well I would imagine), but I remember back in the late 90's, I had 8 dell workstations that I would farm out my rendering to (this would be for Lightwave and after several hours I would have my 60 second 3d animation) ;~)) Anyway, love working in 3D, have been for decades, and more horsepower is always welcome to me when I step into that world ;~)) Here is a guitar case I did in Sketchup a few years ago. The idea was shot down by my GF, but I still may try to build something similar to it someday, I think it turned out pretty cool! The wall that it is sitting against is a mirrored wall, so case would be clear on back side as well. Glass color would not be like that, just had it that way to make it be more visible in my modeling. This was in no way a model I was ready to start building from wood and glass, just a concept mock up. Anyway, that wall is I think 30'. It is a wall in a dance studio that my GF used for her her belly dance troupe (hence the entire mirrored wall - except top 2 ft - no longer used as dance studio)! This was also designed BEFORE I added my 3 PRSi to my guitar harem which is why it was not built to accommodate those guitars nor are they pictured. ;~))

W_Guitar_Cabinet_03a.png

Viva la Sketchup!!!

Oh, and I think I have several "components" here (which I love to Explode as necessary). The wall is a component, the mirrors I think are their own component. Doors, l/r sections of base of stand. Glass for doors I think is there own component so I could easily show/hide all the glass with one click, yada yada ;~)) I thought though that Sketchup was using the companies computers as the modelers and your performance was for the most part based on the level you were subscribed to as well as the speed of your internet connection. Is that not the case? If it were the case, past some descent basics, you should not need a lot of processing power to work smoothly and with complex objects in Sketchup, but maybe my assumptions about that are wrong ;~)) Would not be my first nor will it be my last foray into inaccuracy ;~))

The thing I liked most about playing with Chief Architect was all the built in functions and things you needed (components if you will). So you can say "11' wall with 16" stud spacing, 96" high" and you could then stick a window in that wall and it would properly reconstruct the wall for window placement where you wanted it using whatever protocols you had activated. Same thing with a door, or plumbing, it would just set stuff up for you logically. You could alter it but the basic elements are adjusted and put in place automatically. Really cool stuff for doing architectural 3D models in part for reasons like that ;~)) If you have never played with it, you should check it out. It is expensive (and I think they have moved to a F'in subscription model now), but if you do a lot of that stuff, it may be worth the investment. I did a model of this house and it came out really cool (but I have no idea what hard drive it is stored on, doh)!
 
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We bought a Mac Mini M2 and I use Logic Proon it without issues. No worries on performance and we stuck a big external drive to it. The amount of hassle I have put down for that system is low. Since I don’t game on that computer we will probably upgrade around the time the M10 comes around like laxu wrote. My work computer is Windows-based and I’m constantly disappointed in Microsoft and how shitty it works, weird software issues etc. And also that sleep mode never actually works so I have to constantly shut it down when moving around unless it cooks itself to death in my bag.

Previously I’ve built PC’s but since I never upgraded them in time the only thing I could have potentially kept was the case when it was time, so that has never worked out in a good way for me personally.

If you feel the need for freedom of upgrading, are okay with potential troubleshooting and actually tolerate Windows then go for a PC.

If you want to spend less time on building it, making projections on potential upgrades, troubleshooting and you tolerate MacOS as an operating system go with a Mac Mini. Just my 2 cents.
 
I have been using Logic Pro since 2009, and have very happily stayed with that platform because it's very familiar to me. My old MacBook Pro (mid 2015, quad core Intel 2.5GHz/16GB RAM) was always just barely able to keep up with some of my more extensive projects. Just last week I upgraded to a new MacBook Pro with the 14 core, 4.5GHz M4 Pro chip, 24GB RAM, and a 1TB internal drive. I also picked up a Samsung 4TB external SSD, and it holds all of my Kontakt library and projects.

As a test, I loaded one of my projects that maxed out my old MacBook, and the CPU meter on the new machine is barely tickling 5% across the cores. I'm a very happy camper, because now I have enough horsepower to go totally stupid. It cost a few bucks, sure, but I have absolutely zero regrets. It's worth it to me to not have to start all over with a new DAW.
Sounds like you old MacBook Pro is about the same as the one I have. I have had it for getting close to 10 years. If I replace it with another MacBook Pro it will more than likely be the same one you bought. I just wish it wasn't as expensive as they are. I don't like the "Apple" upcharge.

I am typically not an Apple fan. I had one iPhone and went to Android. I like it much better and have been on Android for over a decade now. I have an old iPad that I used with my digital mixer. I think it would still work for that but I wouldn't buy a new one to replace it if it broke. This MacBook is the only Apple product that I continue to use. In all honesty the reason I have it is because when I decided to build a genuine dedicated recording rig I decided to go with ProTools and Mac since that is what all of the big boys were using at the time. Windows machines just couldn't keep up back when I bought this system. That has changed and things have moved forward. That is why I am questioning what I should invest my money in for this next one.
 
I’m really happy with using a Mac mini. Current one I got 4 years ago, the one before lasted me about 10 years, and still runs a daw fine.
Not being able to update my daw didn’t bother me tbh, it did what it had to do, but not being able to install anything else new got me updating;g to a new one.

Did you check current offerings of Mac mini? The internet tells me that the basic model is super high performance and well priced…it’s when you need even more performance is when they drain your card big time. If the specs meet your needs…might be an affordable way to stay on Mac.
 
Sounds like you old MacBook Pro is about the same as the one I have. I have had it for getting close to 10 years. If I replace it with another MacBook Pro it will more than likely be the same one you bought. I just wish it wasn't as expensive as they are. I don't like the "Apple" upcharge.

I am typically not an Apple fan. I had one iPhone and went to Android. I like it much better and have been on Android for over a decade now. I have an old iPad that I used with my digital mixer. I think it would still work for that but I wouldn't buy a new one to replace it if it broke. This MacBook is the only Apple product that I continue to use. In all honesty the reason I have it is because when I decided to build a genuine dedicated recording rig I decided to go with ProTools and Mac since that is what all of the big boys were using at the time. Windows machines just couldn't keep up back when I bought this system. That has changed and things have moved forward. That is why I am questioning what I should invest my money in for this next one.

Honestly, my old MacBook is still running just fine. It’s telling me that the battery is nearing the end of its life and servicing is required, but I never run it on the battery anyway so that’s not an issue. I just decided that it was time to upgrade the performance side of things, and the new machine is a rocket compared to the old one. The old one will still be used daily for surfing the internet.
 
Honestly, my old MacBook is still running just fine. It’s telling me that the battery is nearing the end of its life and servicing is required, but I never run it on the battery anyway so that’s not an issue. I just decided that it was time to upgrade the performance side of things, and the new machine is a rocket compared to the old one. The old one will still be used daily for surfing the internet.
It might be a good idea to open it and see if the battery has bulged. If it has, I'd remove it and either replace it or just run it entirely on the power adapter.

The older Macs are easy to open, just unscrew the bottom plate. I don't know if they started putting that T5 screw in these back then, but if they did then you need to get a screwdriver for that.
 
I’m really happy with using a Mac mini. Current one I got 4 years ago, the one before lasted me about 10 years, and still runs a daw fine.
Not being able to update my daw didn’t bother me tbh, it did what it had to do, but not being able to install anything else new got me updating;g to a new one.

Did you check current offerings of Mac mini? The internet tells me that the basic model is super high performance and well priced…it’s when you need even more performance is when they drain your card big time. If the specs meet your needs…might be an affordable way to stay on Mac.
I am currently looking at all of the Mac offerings. I am really trying to figure out if I need to do the upgrade.

Honestly, my old MacBook is still running just fine. It’s telling me that the battery is nearing the end of its life and servicing is required, but I never run it on the battery anyway so that’s not an issue. I just decided that it was time to upgrade the performance side of things, and the new machine is a rocket compared to the old one. The old one will still be used daily for surfing the internet.
Technically mine is still doing everything I need it to do. I just can't get the newest version of Logic on it. I am still trying to figure out if I need to do the upgrade or kick the can down the road a little longer. I will be getting a nice bonus the first part of April. I was thinking I may just bite the bullet and do the upgrade then. I figured that gives me time to do some research. If I found a good deal I could pull the trigger now but figured I would start looking into this and try to figure out if I should do it this year. In all honesty, I probably shouldn't do it. The longer I can put it off the better the new computer will be and will last me longer than one I buy now. I may also be able to get one on a sale through Best Buy since the Apple store near me never puts them on sale.
 
I am currently looking at all of the Mac offerings. I am really trying to figure out if I need to do the upgrade.


Technically mine is still doing everything I need it to do. I just can't get the newest version of Logic on it. I am still trying to figure out if I need to do the upgrade or kick the can down the road a little longer. I will be getting a nice bonus the first part of April. I was thinking I may just bite the bullet and do the upgrade then. I figured that gives me time to do some research. If I found a good deal I could pull the trigger now but figured I would start looking into this and try to figure out if I should do it this year. In all honesty, I probably shouldn't do it. The longer I can put it off the better the new computer will be and will last me longer than one I buy now. I may also be able to get one on a sale through Best Buy since the Apple store near me never puts them on sale.

I was holding fast to an older version of Logic and Native Instruments Komplete 11 Ultimate (I have been periodically upgrading my NI stuff since Komplete 7 or so), and was planning on just installing everything onto the new computer and external drive. But no, Kontakt 5 isn't compatible with the new Mac chips. So now I'm running the current version of Logic, AND I upgraded to Komplete 15 Ultimate.

Next on the list is forcing the new computer to accept the Universal Audio software so I can connect my interface. Right now I'm using my Axe-FX as the primary interface, but I have a bunch of plug-ins in the UA interface that I would like to be able to use.

I go through this every eight years or so. Someplace I have a box with a FW800 Saffire Pro 40 and a few FW800 drives, and now I have a box with a pair of Thunderbolt 1 drives.
 
I switched to Mac around 2006 after years of working on PC's. Just got tired of it. Really liked it. I tried to switch back to PC about 10 years ago but it didn't last long at all. It's just so clunky to me. My work computers are all PC's but I'm just comfortable with Mac.

Right now I run a base level Macbook Air into a $100 USB-C hub into a $300 Samsung 4k 28" monitor. Works great!

If I were buying new today I'd look hard at that new Mac Mini with 512 GB drive and 16 GB memory. That seems pretty future proof to me and would be cheaper.
 
I was holding fast to an older version of Logic and Native Instruments Komplete 11 Ultimate (I have been periodically upgrading my NI stuff since Komplete 7 or so), and was planning on just installing everything onto the new computer and external drive. But no, Kontakt 5 isn't compatible with the new Mac chips. So now I'm running the current version of Logic, AND I upgraded to Komplete 15 Ultimate.

Next on the list is forcing the new computer to accept the Universal Audio software so I can connect my interface. Right now I'm using my Axe-FX as the primary interface, but I have a bunch of plug-ins in the UA interface that I would like to be able to use.

I go through this every eight years or so. Someplace I have a box with a FW800 Saffire Pro 40 and a few FW800 drives, and now I have a box with a pair of Thunderbolt 1 drives.
Thankfully I think everything I run on it would work with the new processors. Although, one really doesn't know until you try it.

I switched to Mac around 2006 after years of working on PC's. Just got tired of it. Really liked it. I tried to switch back to PC about 10 years ago but it didn't last long at all. It's just so clunky to me. My work computers are all PC's but I'm just comfortable with Mac.

Right now I run a base level Macbook Air into a $100 USB-C hub into a $300 Samsung 4k 28" monitor. Works great!

If I were buying new today I'd look hard at that new Mac Mini with 512 GB drive and 16 GB memory. That seems pretty future proof to me and would be cheaper.
I want a bigger drive this time. I have a 512 GB in the one I have and it isn't nearly enough. I had to install some larger software on to an external hard drive. It works but it doesn't work as well as if it were all on the main drive of the system. I will go with at least 1 TB in the next one. That pushes the cost up but it will run better for a longer period of time.

Thankfully I spent good money on good equipment for the rest of the system. I have an RME interface. They are good about keeping up with drivers as well as supporting their older units with new drivers, which mine is not. It is a current unit.

I really go back and forth with this. One day I am convinced I should just buy a new Mac Book Pro with great specs and then look into an adaptor for the display I have and see where that goes. If I can't get an adaptor for the display, that puts me in the situation where I have to buy a new monitor, at least one. One thing I don't like about this solution is all of the cables that will be plugged into the laptop. I wish they had a docking station where everything plugged into the back. Then the day after I have these thoughts I think going to a PC is a good idea because in the long run I think it will cost less and I can easily upgrade things. This is another reason I decided that I shouldn't do this until early April. I need to be sure of which way I want to go. One I commit to it I will go all in.
 
Yeah I can get by with 256 drive and 8 ram but it's tight. Some of my apps like to just install a bunch of other stuff. You can't get a lot of samples on there which is limiting. 512 would be way better but 1t would be great. I do have an external SSD as well.

I like the laptop because I can mess around with personal stuff off to the side (like right now) while my main computer/monitor is work. But I don't love the hub route...it's expensive and a lot of cables. If I could get away with it I'd much rather do the Mac Mini.
 
Question: Do you need to be mobile?

Quickshoot recommendation: As you are using (and likely being familiar with) two Mac-only applications, you will very, very likely regret switching to another platform tons of times.

This is coming from someone hating Apple with a passion, yet using their computers kinda exclusively since 2007.
 
This is coming from someone hating Apple with a passion, yet using their computers kinda exclusively since 2007.

I was in college in the early nineties. One of the tasks in my electronics classes was learning to program DOS on the latest 386s in the computer lab. I was also on the school newspaper staff, and the machines used to layout the paper were all Apples. I made my choice then, and have stuck to it for all of these years.
 
I was in college in the early nineties. One of the tasks in my electronics classes was learning to program DOS on the latest 386s in the computer lab. I was also on the school newspaper staff, and the machines used to layout the paper were all Apples. I made my choice then, and have stuck to it for all of these years.

I got to it because of their Logic buyout. Had me all up in arms so I thought I'd teach them and was having some intermezzos with Cubase and still kept returning to my old 5.5.1 version. At the same time, Logic 6 has been pretty much a desaster as they dropped VST support in favour of AUs, which really took a while to lift off (and I still think that it's been an incredibly stupid move only justified by the old Emagic vs. Steinberg rivalry).
But then, when I was really considering to switch DAWs (even while I still loved Logic the most), they finally came around with their Intel machines. And not only that, they were at least somewhat more affordable all of a sudden, too. So I grabbed a cheap plastic Macbook and Logic 7.3 (or so) - and I can safely say that my jaws almost dropped to the floor when I did the first performance tests. That little thing was blowing away my pretty well curated (self-built) Windows machine like night and day in every aspect.
Never looked back ever since.

It really only started to "re-piss" me off recently as their tactics are very questionable. I mean, >2.5k for a 13" laptop with just 2 USB/TB ports? €690 to update the SSD from 512 to 2GB? That's plain robbery, no less.
Add to this that Logic 11 really doesn't even remotely deserve the big version number jump IMO and it's coming with plenty of issues.

Still, that Macbook Air M3 is really smoking. Didn't even once reach any performance limits so far. I think about looking at other DAWs again, though (would be a horrible step, considering I'm using Logic since 1997).
 
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