Switching from Windows to Mac

[paisleywookiee]

I won’t disagree with any thing Laxu has said. All I’ll say is that I’ve never had display issues with my apparently simplistic needs, and even if I did, it’s not enough to use Windows.

 

[laxu]

My desktop PC runs Windows and my work machine is the MBP.

My take on Windows vs Mac is that they are the same crap with different issues. Most software I use is cross-platform or has a viable alternative, so it comes down to each OS's own quirks.

My MacOS top bar is starting to look ridiculous with all the 3rd party apps I have to make it work like I prefer:

Some are work apps like Docker and Harvest (time tracking), VPN and so on but I'm literally running out of icon space there. When you have too many top bar icons, MacOS just starts dropping icons and you cannot access them in any way without quitting other apps, because apparently Apple never considered that would happen...

The latest MacOS Seqoia release is having tons of issues starting from installing it. Apple's updates have become so bad that I avoid installing major OS versions until they have a few xx.x bug fix updates out.

I'm not trying to discourage anyone from buying a Mac, just to say that it's definitely not all roses and sunshine on their side either.

 

[bigmenace]

I find Windows 10/11 to perfectly adequate for anything audio/video or studio related. But you most definitely need two separate systems - one you keep for personal use (web, gaming etc.) and another one strictly for your studio work. I did a lengthy Reaper guitar recording and mixing session with my 6'th gen i7 MSI laptop last year without any problems - it's almost a decade old at this point and still going strong.

One could go as far as completely debloat W11 but I haven't even bothered since there really isn't anything that would interfere with my work.

 

[EOengineer]

My desktop PC runs Windows and my work machine is the MBP.

My take on Windows vs Mac is that they are the same crap with different issues. Most software I use is cross-platform or has a viable alternative, so it comes down to each OS's own quirks.

My MacOS top bar is starting to look ridiculous with all the 3rd party apps I have to make it work like I prefer:

View attachment 29200
Some are work apps like Docker and Harvest (time tracking), VPN and so on but I'm literally running out of icon space there. When you have too many top bar icons, MacOS just starts dropping icons and you cannot access them in any way without quitting other apps, because apparently Apple never considered that would happen...

The latest MacOS Seqoia release is having tons of issues starting from installing it. Apple's updates have become so bad that I avoid installing major OS versions until they have a few xx.x bug fix updates out.

I'm not trying to discourage anyone from buying a Mac, just to say that it's definitely not all roses and sunshine on their side either.

I’m not sure I’ve ever encountered a Mac running a current OS version in any studio, educational facility, or professional environment I’ve been in over the last 25 years.

Even in the mid 2000s I remember everyone leaving their machines parked at 10.4.11 for like a decade. Probably because the cracked Waves version stopped working in 10.5

To this day I still hang back. Never. Ever. EVER update to the latest on any system running media production work.

 

[paisleywookiee]

I'm not trying to discourage anyone from buying a Mac, just to say that it's definitely not all roses and sunshine on their side either.

For the average person, it’s not a big deal. You’re not the average person. In over ten years of supporting Macs, I’ve never seen anything like your task bar.

 

[EOengineer]

If there’s a particular concern I have about Apple, it’s the possibility they eventually abandon their media production Apple wholesale because they see such profitability as a small device company.

When they killed off Aperture many is suspected that was a signal but so far so good. I guess only time will tell.

 

[paisleywookiee]

If there’s a particular concern I have about Apple, it’s the possibility they eventually abandon their media production Apple wholesale because they see such profitability as a small device company.

When they killed off Aperture many is suspected that was a signal but so far so good. I guess only time will tell.

That’s fair. It’s been a concern of mine as well. It’s really not too big of a deal though, as I could easily switch to Windows if I had to, for personal use. Work I’m on Windows 11 anyway.

 

[EOengineer]

That’s fair. It’s been a concern of mine as well. It’s really not too big of a deal though, as I could easily switch to Windows if I had to, for personal use. Work I’m on Windows 11 anyway.

At least for now I’m a Logic user, so I’m bound to Apple in that sense. If I had to I’d probably migrate back to pro tools or begrudgingly try Reaper again.

 

[paisleywookiee]

At least for now I’m a Logic user, so I’m bound to Apple in that sense. If I had to I’d probably migrate back to pro tools are begrudgingly try Reaper again.

I can’t stand Reaper, personally. I’d likely switch to Studio One, which I’ve used quite a bit.

 

[laxu]

Thought I'd bump this thread to showcase what external displays at the very high end can be with MacOS vs Windows.

Pic not mine.

I recently purchased the absurdly large 57" Samsung G95NC superultrawide when its price dropped low enough. It's basically two 32" 4K displays in one, with a whopping 7680x2160 resolution. It's so huge I now have to figure out how to mount my speakers because the thing takes up my entire desk width. I bought this primarily for work because I need to have a ton of stuff open regularly and have been using a pile of virtual desktops to do my bidding.

Anyway, my M2 Max MBP 16" can run the full resolution, but it cannot run a scaled HiDPI (sharp text/UI) resolution above 3840x1080. Neither can the newer M3 models for the record. This sucks because that makes everything on screen just too big. So instead I have to connect both a HDMI and a Displayport input to the Mac, and run it like two monitors in its special Picture by Picture mode: 5120x2160 + 2560x2160 resolutions split so that the computer thinks there's two displays connected. This allows me more options for scaling because MacOS scaling is limited by its framebuffer resolution.

Until I swapped a HDMI cable, the 5120x2160 portion would randomly black screen. Even then it sometimes gets detected as 3440x1440 res. The 2560x2160 side confuses MacOS somehow and it tends to have trouble figuring out how to set it up correctly. Waking my Mac from sleep I sometimes have to run BetterDisplay app's "reinitialize external displays" function a few times before it gets it right. One of the HDMI ports, marked as 120 Hz (the others are 240 Hz) only outputs 60 Hz on MacOS.

If I set the display to "2x 4K" mode, it works better. There's no reason except 4K is a more standard resolution.

Doing the same on my desktop PC running Windows 11, there are zero issues. Full res with one input and any scaling level, check. Every port capable of at least 120 Hz, check. Random black screens even with the cable that caused me trouble? Nope.

That's why I say MacOS external display support is just a huge pile of crap. Most people just don't run this kind of screens to encounter the problems. But you can run into this stuff with oddball displays like superultrawides, non-Apple 4K+ screens, high refresh rate screens etc.

Apple's stuff generally works best when everything is Apple, so people who use an iMac, or just use a Macbook, don't usually run into issues as regularly as those of us who prefer other peripherals or have complex setups.

This is by no means a thumbs up for Windows. It does a lot of stuff really poorly too, but it generally is the more compatible platform.

 

[paisleywookiee]

Apple's stuff generally works best when everything is Apple, so people who use an iMac, or just use a Macbook, don't usually run into issues as regularly as those of us who prefer other peripherals or have complex setups.

Yeah it’s never done well with weird/super high resolution. But that doesn’t mean you have to use Apple monitors. It’s been running happily for me on LG, Acer, HP, Dell, Samsung, etc for well over a decade. You just unfortunately need to stick to standard resolutions (2K, 4K) and probably more importantly “normal” aspect ratios. FWIW, Linux can be a pain in the dick on extreme resolution/aspect ratios too.

 

[likitlikeyoulikeit]

It's because they want you to buy their own proprietary, overpriced, displays complete with their own connections......

This is why I only get their desktops.....and none of the peripheral stuff ...what a money grab. Love Apple computers, hate their cult like " buy everything so it matches OUR aesthetic" thing.

But I'm just a guy. In the Internet.....

 

[paisleywookiee]

It's because they want you to buy their own proprietary, overpriced, displays complete with their own connections......

This is why I only get their desktops.....and none of the peripheral stuff ...what a money grab. Love Apple computers, hate their cult like " buy everything so it matches OUR aesthetic" thing.

But I'm just a guy. In the Internet.....

Eh, I’ve NEVER bought an Apple display for personal use. Had one at my last job because they paid for it. But at home, LG+OWC dock is a killer setup.

 

[laxu]

To throw MacOS further down the bus...I just spent 15 minutes not being able to log into my computer because all my USB accessories would not function. MacOS would not tell about this in any way.

When I finally got in by directly plugging my keyboard to the laptop (which is run closed with external monitor, more like a desktop system), MacOS would say I need to "allow" the USB hub I had connected before it can be connected.

Everything to do with external devices is just so damn stupid on MacOS.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

To this day I still hang back. Never. Ever. EVER update to the latest on any system running media production work.

There is rarely anything at all to gain by jumping to the latest version. If it works and does everything you need to, just stay put. If you are forced to update, never ever go to the latest version. Going at least 1 behind is always a safer bet.

 

[laxu]

There is rarely anything at all to gain by jumping to the latest version. If it works and does everything you need to, just stay put. If you are forced to update, never ever go to the latest version. Going at least 1 behind is always a safer bet.

My rules for Apple products:

1. Never buy the first generation of a new product. E.g M1 Macs are far worse for display support than M2/M3 Macs.
2. Never update to a xx.0 version of an Apple OS release. It will always be buggy and the quickly released xx.1 will fix the major problems.
3. Never buy their peripherals if you can help it. Apple just loves to make them incompatible with the new gen especially for iOS peripherals.

It will often also take time for 3rd party apps to update for compatibility with the latest MacOS.

 

[paisleywookiee]

To throw MacOS further down the bus...I just spent 15 minutes not being able to log into my computer because all my USB accessories would not function. MacOS would not tell about this in any way.

When I finally got in by directly plugging my keyboard to the laptop (which is run closed with external monitor, more like a desktop system), MacOS would say I need to "allow" the USB hub I had connected before it can be connected.

Everything to do with external devices is just so damn stupid on MacOS.

I just logged in without issue, connected to my hub and monitors. I think it’s because Macs are emotional creatures, and yours reads what you say online, and it’s hurt. It’s hurting, Laxu. Be nice.

 

[deepskyone]

To throw MacOS further down the bus...I just spent 15 minutes not being able to log into my computer because all my USB accessories would not function. MacOS would not tell about this in any way.

When I finally got in by directly plugging my keyboard to the laptop (which is run closed with external monitor, more like a desktop system), MacOS would say I need to "allow" the USB hub I had connected before it can be connected.

Everything to do with external devices is just so damn stupid on MacOS.

This new(ish) permission system seems rather stupid and undercooked. Yes, there are USB devices with malware out there but which kind of attacks is this supposed to stop?

I am also not happy with the trajectory of MacOS (and Apple as a whole) but the alternatives are even worse IMHO. Apart from my MBP I also have a Framework 13 running Windows 10 and Fedora. Installing Windows is horrible enough already. Several million nagscreen about all the things that MS wants to do with your data. And Linux is fine for software development but everything else is a PITA if not impossible.

The enshittification progresses further and further...

 

[paisleywookiee]

This new(ish) permission system seems rather stupid and undercooked. Yes, there are USB devices with malware out there but which kind of attacks is this supposed to stop?

I am also not happy with the trajectory of MacOS (and Apple as a whole) but the alternatives are even worse IMHO. Apart from my MBP I also have a Framework 13 running Windows 10 and Fedora. Installing Windows is horrible enough already. Several million nagscreen about all the things that MS wants to do with your data. And Linux is fine for software development but everything else is a PITA if not impossible.

The enshittification progresses further and further...

Yeah, that pretty much sums it up for me too. I love my Air M3, but I don’t like a lot of the UI changes and the iOS-ification of MacOS. But fuck Windows. I’d love it if I could use Mint for everything, but the software just isn’t there.

 

[likitlikeyoulikeit]

This new(ish) permission system seems rather stupid and undercooked. Yes, there are USB devices with malware out there but which kind of attacks is this supposed to stop?

I am also not happy with the trajectory of MacOS (and Apple as a whole) but the alternatives are even worse IMHO. Apart from my MBP I also have a Framework 13 running Windows 10 and Fedora. Installing Windows is horrible enough already. Several million nagscreen about all the things that MS wants to do with your data. And Linux is fine for software development but everything else is a PITA if not impossible.

The enshittification progresses further and further...

This....so much this.....I miss my PowerPC Power Mac......