Some interesting news from Kemper (Profiler Player)

[JiveTurkey]

I mean, you bought the damn ToneX immediately…

$399 will do that to you! It went back slower than it should have.

 

[TubeStack]

$399 will do that to you! It went back slower than it should have.

 

[Byrdman]

100% they are following the industry trend with NDSP
I suspect in the future you might see more of this , I think it’s good and it’s bad , but realistically if you picked a hardware unit and then could add what you want as far as amp models and effects a lot of people could be in the market for that I think

I'm a cheap bastard, so I'll stick with the "We provide upgrades to our products for free for years". Thanks, Line 6 and others that do that!!

 

[Mongillo19]

$399 will do that to you! It went back slower than it should have.

Why do I think I got it for $250 for a coupon

 

[JiveTurkey]

Why do I think I got it for $250 for a coupon

Oh yeah! I forgot I got that "great deal"* as well


*comes with lifetime supply of user interface induced pedal throwing anger

 

[Mongillo19]

Oh yeah! I forgot I got that "great deal"* as well


*comes with lifetime supply of user interface induced pedal throwing anger

Tbf, as dumb as the UI is, $250 is very much a deal

 

[laxu]

What if the update isn’t only software but an additional hardware adapter.

CK mentions trying to solve the only one input issue. With USB audio now available there are other possibilities.

I was kinda wondering that. No modeler vendor has to my knowledge made any expansion capabilities to their units beyond adding footcontrollers.

It would be neat to buy some extension I/O box for this stuff that you leave at home when you don't need all that and bring a more compact unit. Now that means you have two modelers.

 

[Enchilada Jones]

A lot of people assuming the hardware's untapped potential was always going to be a path to pay for more features. Realistically it was likely just the result of Kemper using the same bits and pieces they already were buying, at the scale of the economy their total product line requirements afforded them. It also probably makes the operating code easier to have the same chips etc in the box instead of writing new code to do the same jobs.

When sales reach a tipping point it could become viable to flip the hidden switches. That's why I think they have been pleasantly surprised by initial results and why they even mention it now the way he did. It seems like the decision was made after the launch. That's what I get from the way he used the word 'quit' (quite?) in his comments anyway.

If sales are not enough then you simply never mention the hidden potential...quite the opposite of NDSP who promised, pre launch, things they still can't deliver years later!

 

[Tanax]

Most modelers does this. Fractal offers the ability to pay for more DynaCabs. You don't have to buy them. Just like Kemper will offer the ability to pay for more FX. You don't have to buy them.

 

[DrewJD82]

Most modelers does this. Fractal offers the ability to pay for more DynaCabs. You don't have to buy them. Just like Kemper will offer the ability to pay for more FX. You don't have to buy them.

I don’t feel that’s an accurate comparison. Anyone buying a Fractal unit has access to all the effects/amp models with over 1000 included IR’s, plus the included DynaCabs. No one with a Fractal will ever have to say “Shit, I gotta pay to get a Flanger so we can play Unchained”

 

[Deadpan]

They might. And I'd be very opposed to it if you couldn't tell but if people are fine with Kemper doing it, they should have no issue with NDSP

And I realize it's different and a little bit of a generalization but I'd argue the main idea is the same

NDSP took the opposite approach and started selling the pay options first.

 

[laxu]

Most modelers does this. Fractal offers the ability to pay for more DynaCabs. You don't have to buy them. Just like Kemper will offer the ability to pay for more FX. You don't have to buy them.

Fractal hasn't released any Dyna-Cabs that are not already in the unit. While the Dyna-Cabs offer more cone positions and mic options, you can't add them to the Axe-Fx without baking them into an IR. It's likely that they are limiting the space available for Dyna-Cabs since I expect they take a lot of space. For next gen we will probably see Cab Lab's full Dyna-Cab capabilities.

I haven't bought any of the Dyna-Cab packs because Cab Lab lacks a crucial feature: exporting those mixes to IRs I can use on any device I want. I don't want to jump through hoops of setting up my DAW to play sweep files and have to throw files at a deconvolver software. I bought e.g ML Sound Lab MIKKO 2 because I can mix my own IRs using his cab selection and then put it on e.g my Strymon Iridium with ease.

I don't mind paying for extra features, if it's done with fair pricing and not so that you are feeling features being pay gated. Like you said, you can always just ignore they exist. Most don't buy e.g every IR pack that comes out.

Let's say Kemper adds a paid upgrade to bring in profiling capability, that would be totally ok because you can just not buy it if you never want to profile.

 

[Enchilada Jones]

they offered a new device that is a very limited version of the Stage.

Not what a lot of people wanted but then they never said it was.

Now they let you know they might give it more features via a paid pathway.
It was never promised just something tentatively proposed, after launch.

Some of the reaction is that any new Kemper device that is similar to previous product must have free feature upgrades.

It would be nice sure. But it’s a hell of a stretch to imply that scenario is unethical or a bait and switch.

I wonder, for those that disagree with that, if they instead didn’t tell you it had potential beyond its release level feature set and they released a Player II in 6 months with a new set of features for a higher price would that be better? Then 6 months later Player III…higher price still…

That would piss me off if I bought the Player I. And if I knew the hardware was already set for it even more angry!

I’m happy to learn it is within my reach to upgrade by choice without having to buy again

 

[texhex]

Just release the Player... then in 6-12 months release the additional features for free as enhancements just like the rest of the big boys (including Kemper) do and keep building value in the Kemper platform.

It's a bad idea to charge extra for updates to this device if you ask me, IF that is what they actually intend to do in the future. Charging for feature enhancements puts Kemper hardware products into a totally different category IMO.

 

[Lysander]

It's a bad idea to charge extra for updates to this device if you ask me, IF that is what they actually intend to do in the future. Charging for feature enhancements puts Kemper hardware products into a totally different category IMO.

Line 6 used to do this on the Pod HD days - which is one of the reasons i refused to buy their products back then. Took them almost a decade to change that public perception with Helix.

Sure, Kemper is well within their rights to sell optional features as "upgrades", but, any way you slice it... it IS nickel-and-diming, specially given how any of these "features" have existed elsewhere on their product line for over 10 years now.

 

[Mongillo19]

I wonder, for those that disagree with that, if they instead didn’t tell you it had potential beyond its release level feature set and they released a Player II in 6 months with a new set of features for a higher price would that be better? Then 6 months later Player III…higher price still…

I disagree because all the major digital devices give free updates. You make it seem like Kemper also hasn't been doing this for 10+ years.

 

[Orvillain]

This product just seems like a stop gap to me. I wouldn't be surprised if they made this to finish off funding Kemper 2.0

 

[Enchilada Jones]

I disagree because all the major digital devices give free updates. You make it seem like Kemper also hasn't been doing this for 10+ years.

I think you have failed to notice the distinction between updating existing firmware in the other products that does nothing to harm Kemper * and * expecting them to now include doing self harm simply because some customers feel entitled to it with this product.
He clearly stated it would be against the fiscal health of Kemper to canibalize his profiler product by turning the Player into a full blown Profiler product at 1/3 the price!

Just because he can doesn’t mean he should. Hell if Kemper is a publicly traded entity it’s probably going to cost him his job and he will be sued for negligence if he does that.
I imagine he regrets mentioning it and will decide to never offer an upgrade to the Player if the #entitlement swells.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

Maybe check the explanation on the kemper forum.
I don’t think your doing justice to the company with the wording “milking”.

My initial thoughts where…not a “kemperish” thing to do also…

why would I need to "do the company justice?"

I think i was clear AF...sell hardware, add feature, charge extra and I'm not the target audience. End of story.

It's rather amusing to see reactions on fora which companies get slammed fir the smallest thing while others can't do no wrong.
Priceless

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

I'm still not completely (un)sold on the idea of being able to "upgrade" the smallest device up to the flagship save for ins/outs/whatever non-existent hardware differences you can't make up for?

how you gonna upgrade this to profile with the lack of i/o?
And without how is gonna be upgradable to flagship level.