Question about Intervals

[Eagle]

I just started lessons and as soon as my teacher saw that I didn’t know the note names, he started with triads!

Watch the video I posted about learning the notes on the neck . It’s easy enough and won’t interfere with your teacher’s methods either. The more tools you have the quicker you’ll get there.

 

[Gothi]

Wow. I am impressed by your ignore system. It simply wipes the poster in question out of existence, and if he is quoted, the quote is censored by the system. At Gearspace, you can still see the member is posting. It is just folded, and you cannot avoid quotes from other posters.

This is how an ignore system should work. Yay. Some programmer did his homework here.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Wow. I am impressed by your ignore system. It simply wipes the poster in question out of existence, and if he is quoted, the quote is censored by the system. At Gearspace, you can still see the member is posting. It is just folded, and you cannot avoid quotes from other posters.

This is how an ignore system should work. Yay. Some programmer did his homework here.

It's definitely made for people sticking their head into the sand. Good luck using it.

 

[jay mitchell]

And that is the functions of the major scale.

No. Musical intervals existed before scales. See Pythagoras.

 

[jay mitchell]

The thing that everyone is missing is the distance between notes in context is the function of both relative to one in the chord and out of context relative to the major scale with the lowest as the one.

No. I'm guessing you've never taken a course in music theory. Intervals exist independent of scales.

 

[jay mitchell]

Is C the 1, are you playing Eb over C or are you playing C to Eb one then the other over nothing.

You are conflating intervals with function. They are two independent concepts.

The function of each note is 100% relevant to how you decide to use it in any musical context.

Learning to recognize - and sing, if you really want to know them - intervals does not convey any information about function. That requires additional knowledge.

The tritone in a 7th chord is functionally different to one starting on the one.

And yet - this is really important - the interval is the same.

 

[jay mitchell]

^^^ Seen in isolation there is no reason to call a minor 9th a flattened 9th unless vi know the mode.

That is why I placed "flatted" in parentheses. I know professional music educators who use the term "flatted" for sevenths, ninths, and thirteenths, even when referring to those tones when they are naturally present in a mode. One of those educators - Noel Johnston (NOEL JOHNSTON GUITARIST) - has published several books on modes. I highly recommend checking out his educational materials. He is a world-class player as well. I'm very fortunate to be able to hear him play locally.

 

[Sascha Franck]

No. Musical intervals existed before scales. See Pythagoras.

Their "modern" names still derive from heptatonic scales, which - as this thread goes to show - is part of some people obviously being confused.

 

[jay mitchell]

Their "modern" names still derive from heptatonic scales, which - as this thread goes to show - is part of some people obviously being confused.

My point all along has been that function is irrelevant to the character of an interval when it's heard on its own. Naming is of secondary importance. What's important are the sounds the intervals make and learning to recognize them, regardless of what you call them. Naming is only necessary when we wish to designate intervals either verbally or online.

FWIW, there are significant variations in the actual tones that comprise given intervals. Western music has now adopted twelve tone equal temperament (12tet) to define pitches, but this convention is not universal, nor was it always historically used even in Western music. The most consonant intervals are defined by overtones, which only octaves in 12tet match exactly. When a 12tet-tuned instrument (keyboard or fretted instrument) is not present, vocalists and players of continuous-pitch instruments (e.g., strings) will tend to sing/play intervals that match up with overtones rather than with the "correct" 12tet pitches.

 

[Eagle]

No. I'm guessing you've never taken a course in music theory. Intervals exist independent of scales.

Well not apart from a degree.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Chromatic riff drop D skillset crew checking in.

 

[Eagle]

Chromatic riff drop D skillset crew checking in.

You haven’t missed anything.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Might get crazy and set up my guitar in B# later

 

[Sascha Franck]

My point all along has been that function is irrelevant to the character of an interval when it's heard on its own. Naming is of secondary importance. What's important are the sounds the intervals make and learning to recognize them, regardless of what you call them. Naming is only necessary when we wish to designate intervals either verbally or online.

I totally agree on all of that, I was just trying to point out why things seem to be confusing for some people.

And yes, all that only works well in an equal temperament environment anyway.

 

[Gothi]

Honered Bards
With your permission (hopefully):
Music theory can easily get complex, ambiguous and confusing. The more views you combine the less exact are the logical consequences and the less precise the vocabulary. That has often made me a reductionist asking “but all this is derivations, what are the basic stones? How little do I need to know to bring them into action?” and among other things this has led me to the historical foundations in modal counterpoint . I shall honestly demonstrate “how little”, but significant, info is needed about intervals in classical counterpoint.

Here is an extraction from Fux 1725 in an English translation (page 20).
The basic info given about intervals is less than a page, and the translater have added a small note from previous chapter describing the fourth´s relative role as dissonance or imperfect consonance.

In theory no one should need more for a start too. If we all can agree to the basis given here, we can more carefully test the logic and usefulness of anything beyond. This is what Mozart, Haydn and other needed to blew our minds till this day. If we cannot agree to this basis, we have a semantic problem of historical dimensions so to speak and are at risk of speaking of completely different things.

Kindly
Gothi

PDF

http://www.opus28.co.uk/Fux_Gradus.pdf

 

[Mikael Dez]

Watch the video I posted about learning the notes on the neck . It’s easy enough and won’t interfere with your teacher’s methods either. The more tools you have the quicker you’ll get there.

I also watched that, because I agree, more tools are better. I don’t like the counting up or down part, but I did like the octave shape he shows, and I’ve started applying that!

 

[Sascha Franck]

Honered Bards
With your permission (hopefully):
Music theory can easily get complex, ambiguous and confusing. The more views you combine the less exact are the logical consequences and the less precise the vocabulary. That has often made me a reductionist asking “but all this is derivations, what are the basic stones? How little do I need to know to bring them into action?” and among other things this has led me to the historical foundations in modal counterpoint . I shall honestly demonstrate “how little”, but significant, info is needed about intervals in classical counterpoint.

Here is an extraction from Fux 1725 in an English translation (page 20).
The basic info given about intervals is less than a page, and the translater have added a small note from previous chapter describing the fourth´s relative role as dissonance or imperfect consonance.

In theory no one should need more for a start too. If we all can agree to the basis given here, we can more carefully test the logic and usefulness of anything beyond. This is what Mozart, Haydn and other needed to blew our minds till this day. If we cannot agree to this basis, we have a semantic problem of historical dimensions so to speak and are at risk of speaking of completely different things.

Kindly
Gothi

View attachment 37817

PDF

http://www.opus28.co.uk/Fux_Gradus.pdf

As before, completely irrelevant to this discussion. Intervals can have a function inside a context but that function is irrelevant for the existence of the interval.
Anyone not understanding that should stay away from trying to educate people.

 

[Mikael Dez]

I think I’m going to spend a day a week on each note, starting with A on Sunday and ending with G on Saturday. Going through the major, minor, pentatonic major + minor, all major and minor shapes across the fretboard for that note, and then a couple chord progressions with that note as the I. I’m sure my teacher will incorporate 7ths in the near future, which I’d then just add that in to the regime.

 

[Eagle]

I also watched that, because I agree, more tools is better. I don’t like the counting up or down part, but I did like the octave shape he shows, and I’ve started applying that!

The more the better.

 

[jay mitchell]

One two octave shape for whatever mode of whatever scale I’m using at that moment

In the long term, that's an ineffective and inefficient way to understand modes or the fretboard. It will require that you make frequent, unnecessary position changes. I learned those fingerings ca. 1973 and used them for a time in the way you describe. A few years later it dawned on me - during a lesson I took with Bill Moio - how much that approach had limited my playing. I suggest you work on Bill Leavitt's fingerings in Book Three of his Method for Modern Guitar. Once you begin to get those together, you'll gradually develop the ability to play in any key/scale/mode in whatever position you find yourself at any given moment.

The framework in my head is a two octave three notes per string scale

While it's generally a good thing to be aware of 3nps fingerings, that is only of significant value when you're playing sequential scales/modes using alternate picking. If you practice playing scales, your improvisation will tend to sound like you're practicing scales. Just sayin'....