"Musicality" & What Makes a Great Chord Progression?

[la szum]

For me, theory is like a map. If you already know the lay of the land through experience
and direct connection, then you probably don't need a map. If you want to explore new
territory you may not need a map either. Enjoy the adventure! Huge part of making Life
the experience it can be.

If you get stuck and lost, then a map can help you orient yourself---if you know how to read it,
which is not a given. Or if you want to go to a specific place and evoke a mood, then a
map/theory can help you get there faster than just wandering around and hoping to hit by accident.

 

[FuzzyAce]

then a
map/theory can help you get there faster than just wandering around and hoping to hit by accident.

 

[TSJMajesty]

than just wandering around and hoping to hit by accident.

And if you are just wandering around, make sure you're recording yourself.
Never know what kind of cool things you'll trip over. And then forget.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Well until we get from diatonic stuff to modern stuff.
Where instead of say stacking a triad on top of a tetrad (like D on top of 7 to get C13#11) we stack 2 tetrads.
Like C7 + D△7 + Fø7 and you get stuff like a C7♯23

Well, this thread is about great chord progressions...

 

[Sascha Franck]

For me, theory is like a map. If you already know the lay of the land through experience
and direct connection, then you probably don't need a map. If you want to explore new
territory you may not need a map either. Enjoy the adventure! Huge part of making Life
the experience it can be.

That's a pretty decent analogy.
Maps get you there quicker but exploring things "blindly" might be more fun here and there.

I also like the analogy of a toolbox.
A properly sorted toolbox will allow you to quickly find the right tool for the job, at least once you've learned that you need a screwdriver for a screw and a hammer for a nail. But sometimes it just looks more interesting if you messed up a screw with a hammer. Might be pretty rare occasions, but they surely exist. Same with "artistic" moments in music. At least in anything we may typically listen to, 99% is just properly used toolboxes. For the remaining 1%, someone decided to use a hammer for a screw (or just lost his screwdriver - happy accidents are a big part of art IMO).

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

Well, this thread is about great chord progressions...

Play D7 stuff over B♭△7 and Tell me how non diatonic can't sound inside.

And the topic of this thread notwithstanding what it's really about is harmonic functions. Which really has FA to do with modes.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Play D7 stuff over B♭△7 and Tell me how non diatonic can't sound inside.

Anything I try doesn't sound inside at all.

 

[likitlikeyoulikeit]

I love reading your dialogue....it's like watching 2 amazing chess players in a competitive painting competition!

 

[Sascha Franck]

Bb maj. 9(#5)

Sure. Personally, I don't think the #5 sounds particularly inside, though. But then, in case you treat the Bbj7 as lydian augmented, it might make more sense. Let alone that "typical" D7 stuff might as well feature a B.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Or over Bb maj. enharmonically it's a flat 6. Suggests a minor IV chord feel in a major key.

Maybe - but what kinda D7 related stuff would that come down to? D7 altered?

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

Sure, several possibilities there. Chromatic passing melodies could be D7 altered if emphasized or paused on.

? There are two of seven that aren't consonant.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

Which 2 of which 7? Which chord and which mode/scale? D7 altered? D7 over a Bb maj 7 chord? The F# would be a aug. 5 or a b6 of Bb maj. I always liked that sound.

D13#11 over B♭△7
So D lydian dominant against Bb.

The outside notes I still would use are b and f♯, just wouldn't ride them.

 

[Sascha Franck]

D13#11 over B♭△7

Uhm. There's a G# as well then. So it's B, F# and G# and you consider that as consonant over a Bbj7?

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

Uhm. There's a G# as well then. So it's B, F# and G# and you consider that as consonant over a Bbj7?

If the ♭7 on △7 bugs you make it D13 Mixo.

Like the ♭3, ♭5 it falls under Blues and you can sleepwalk those all day.
Play lines not pitches.
Play any D7 line you got over B♭△7.

I mean think about it where does D7 want to go automatically…G or G- and last I checked B♭△7 is functionally and notewise the same as G-9

And then none of the outside pitches are any issue.

 

[FracKing]

Only had a very quick read...

One aspect, and what I often seem to do naturally when playing around mindlessly, is to keep one or more common notes.

IIRC, it was also mentioned on Beato that you can follow up with any weird chord as long as it has a common note (or more) to the previous chord. Of course, good taste in the matter (and the melody) remains welcome.

I think I picked that up early from liking Bossa Nova where it seems to occur a lot.

Say, Gmaj7 Abdim7 Am11 D7 (D note in common)

Probably for a similar reason a pedal note in the bass allows "random chords" under it to still sound interesting.

And listening to Toto early on, I seemed to detect how so many tunes had their own cool rhythmic patterns to the harmony that made it all so much cooler.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

Only had a very quick read...

One aspect, and what I often seem to do naturally when playing around mindlessly, is to keep one or more common notes.

IIRC, it was also mentioned on Beato that you can follow up with any weird chord as long as it has a common note (or more) to the previous chord. Of course, good taste in the matter (and the melody) remains welcome.

I think I picked that up early from liking Bossa Nova where it seems to occur a lot.

Say, Gmaj7 Abdim7 Am11 D7 (D note in common)

Probably for a similar reason a pedal note in the bass allows "random chords" under it to still sound interesting.

And listening to Toto early on, I seemed to detect how so many tunes had their own cool rhythmic patterns to the harmony that made it all so much cooler.

Even if you'd simplify that progression down to shells 1-(♭)3-(♭)7 and drop that common tone.
Which certainly makes for good voice leading.

Any point is that there's nothing about that progression since 3 chords are diatonic to the key of G and the G♯°7 literally functions as a rootless secondary dominant (E7♭9)…ⅤofⅡ-
Well technically it should be called Ⅶ°7ofⅡ-

 

[Eagle]