Pedals !!!

[Stone]

Pedals in modelers are mostly a steaming pile of compared to the real deal. Mostly.

 

[la szum]

I still use them. They are not nothing. They work. Mostly. :

The issue with pedals is you end up needing an entirely different signal
chain----amp + cab----to get the most out of them.

They are like two different ecosystems entirely.

 

[KingsXJJ]

Like Fred Garvin: Male Prostitute?

I aim to please.

 

[dk_ace]

There are a handful that just do something cool that you can’t get out of a modeler. And then there are some that maybe you can get 95% of it’s thing from the modeler, but it is going to be a ton of work and it’s easier to just use the pedal if you have one.

I generally just live with the modeler for the live stuff. Occasionally I’ll take a physical pedal that does something I need/want for the gig that is too much hassle to dial in on the modeler.

The Ibanez de-7, ehx double muff, superfuzzes, and POG are the top of mind things that I tend to just use the real pedal for. I can get by with modeler takes on the POG fine, but the original pedal is a more direct way to get there. The others just have something different that I don’t quite get from the modeler. I’ve spent a fair amount of time trying to get a de-7 out of the helix, never got very close really. Haven’t tried with fractal yet. Will probably try to Get it in there at some point.

D

 

[FuzzyAce]

I still use them. They are not nothing. They work. Mostly. :

The issue with pedals is you end up needing an entirely different signal
chain----amp + cab----to get the most out of them.

They are like two different ecosystems entirely.

If I were to use a modeler live, it would certainly be some sort of hybrid setup with real drive and some modulations involved. Even though I do like quite a few of the pedals in Helix a lot, am I going to use the hx tube driver over an actual BK one? Can't say never, but why should I when the real one feels and sounds better to me? The cool thing is the modeled amps takes actual pedals very well.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Wah and dirt pedals? Real thing all day. The rest I'm good with what's in the box.

 

[Jarick]

Howdy all, so being the Gear Forum i notice that many people use actual pedals as opposed to what is in their modelers
and some even add certain flavor of pedal to their modelers
is there really that much difference in the Toanz that warrants buying a hardware equivalent be it OD, Fuzz, Reverb, Delay ?

I also notice a lot of Modeler owners have multiple rigs, a Modeler setup then a Pedal Board and Amp setup and some form of Hybrid as well


Being a broke ass Mofo I is curious

Cheers

My advice is to avoid the rabbit hole. I have a box full of pedals and prefer modelers 95% of the time.

However if you want to get started with a bunch of really good pedals and a board and power supply I'd be happy to cut you a deal

 

[Alex Kenivel]

I get bored and like to tinker, take things apart and build. This is a little easier to do with pedals, guitars and amps than it is with modelers. Amps themselves serve as a good reference when you've been playing nothing but amp models for a few years.

The only time I'm running pedals with a modeler is if I'm running them with something small like an HX Stomp and that so far has only been for fun at home. Out and about, just bringing a modeler and plugging into whatever is available is just so easy/versatile I can concentrate less on gear and more on playing/singing.

 

[la szum]

In fairness, Mike, I think a lot of us (or a few of us) have had decades of using pedals
with tube amps and that gave us a couple of dozen years or so to build up a nice
stash. One some of us may or may not be adding to as we speak.

 

[GuitarAddicted]

On the Fractal, e.g., if you want some type of say, preset ambient Reverb-y + chorus + delay thing that's in a Strymon, some factory preset that sounds absolutely GLORIOUS, yeah, it can be done in Fractal-land. And I know there's people who could create it.

But if you're like me, good luck trying to figure out how.

Yeah this!
I had my Axe Fx III almost for four years before I went back to amp and pedals, why?
The Axe is just awesome but It really depends on the person who is dialing it in and I had to understand that the person who can dial it in properly is just not me.
Actually I’m playing with my Friedman Bee 100 Deluxe, or my Friedman IR-X and I get much better results with the IR-X than the Axe 3.
This does not mean that the IR-X is better or that the Axe 3 is worse, it just means that to me the IR-X is the better solution for me because it’s easier to me to dial it in.
I got my love for pedals back even if the Axe/FM3/FM9 would be an much easier solution.

 

[dronerstone]

Pedals are cool.

Modelers are cool.

These days, I find it hard to decide, Impossible actually. Both are nice to have.

I was rocking a huge board before the pandemic.

Then got bored and bought the HX FX, which I went on to combine with a PT Nano+ filled with drive/boost/fuzz. Worked just fine!

Some months in, changed back to a smaller single board (Palmer PB40) and loved it.

Then bought a Helix Floor. Awesome. A flagship. Still very satisfied with that one.

But since it's such fun to me, I started rewiring and upgrading the Palmer board.

Can't decide now which to bring to practice. Some days it's the Floor, some days it's the Palmer. Both do "that thing" for me and sound similar enough in the mix.

Helix, of course, is easy to set up for ampless headphone practice (we just started dipping our toes into these waters), and sounds pretty good, especially in stereo.

Anyhow, I love the Helix dirt just as well. Usually, when I buy a new dirt pedal, I sit down for at least one A/B session:

- open an "empty" amp/cab only preset
- hook the pedal up to a HX loop
- put the loop on a footswitch
- pick a few HX drives that seem to match
- A/B to narrow down to a single one
- put that on the same footswitch as the loop
- A/B and tweak until you can't differentiate
- save to favorites
- ?????????????
- profit

 

[FuzzyAce]

@Stone , it's probably best that you stop thinking about pedals and enjoy the Fractal.
Your wallet and sanity will thank you!

 

[Achilles]

In some cases it's a resource issue, right?

Using an outboard box for your crazy verbs frees up a lot of CPU in your modelers for kitchen sink presets.

 

[duzie]

@Stone , it's probably best that you stop thinking about pedals and enjoy the Fractal.
Your wallet and sanity will thank you!

 

[mbenigni]

Just about every pedal I’ve bought in the past year is in the FS pile because an HX Stomp does it better and more easily. And does a thousand other things besides.

There are exceptions: e.g. analog fuzz and spring reverb. But for the most part, don’t cork-sniff your time and money away. IMO the only thing genuinely worth keeping “real” (sometimes) is the speaker cabinet.

 

[Whizzinby]

 

[FuzzyAce]

There are exceptions: e.g. analog fuzz and spring reverb. But for the most part, don’t cork-sniff your time and money away. IMO the only thing genuinely worth keeping “real” (sometimes) is the speaker cabinet.

Yes, there are definitely exceptions. Tube-based drives for sure. I have around 7 or so, and they feel very different driving a modeler vs. a drive in the box. There's an attack and presence from a tube that is unique when used in real time which affects the way you play. But yes, HX is certainly enough for most uses... it really is, and I'm glad I have one.

In fairness, Mike, I think a lot of us (or a few of us) have had decades of using pedals
with tube amps and that gave us a couple of dozen years or so to build up a nice
stash. One some of us may or may not be adding to as we speak.

There is truth to this. There's no point abandoning pedals when we have them and they sound "better" in a lot of cases, or at the least inspire us to play a particular way.

 

[Jarick]

So here's my longer reply.

My pedal journey started a couple years ago when I saw the Studio Rats video about adding a Friedman BE-OD to a modeler. There was one used locally for $100 or something so I picked it up and brought it home. Then realized it didn't have a spot for a battery, so I had to get a power supply for it.

It sounded pretty good, and I decided to build a small pedalboard. I got a Walrus ARP-87 delay, a Jackson Golden Boy, and a Strymon Iridium. For power, I tried a small power brick but because of the current draw of digital pedals, I needed something with more power and isolated outputs. So I got a Voodoo Lab X8. And of course I needed a pedalboard to put it all together, so I got one of the Daddario expandable ones. Lastly I had to get interconnects (MXR) and velcro off Amazon.

Here's where we're at for cost at this point:

Board ~ $100
Power ~ $200
Cables ~ $25
Velcro ~ $15

And pedals (mostly used or on sale):

Walrus ~ $150
Jackson ~ $150
Strymon ~ $300

So we're at about $350 for the board and $600 for pedals.

I got it all wired up and it was pretty cool and fun! But it was mono, and I was used to running in glorious stereo. There was also quirks with the pedals...the Jackson Golden Boy had switching lag because of weird MIDI implementation and the Walrus settings kept resetting (plus no time knob adjustment).

So I decided to try my HX Stomp XL with the Iridium, which meant another power adapter cable and longer interconnects. Now I could run in stereo and it sounded really good! And to be honest, the HX drive models sounded pretty much the same as the "analog" pedals.

But then what the hell was the point of building a pedalboard? I've got $350 worth of supplies just to hook up the additional pedals.

Now this is kind of stupid...because I have the pedalboard, I keep trying different pedals to see if I like that compared to running the modeler. I've got a dozen pedals I rarely use because I find good deals on them, or try to fit them into the existing pedalboard ecosystem I've built. And I'll be honest, the modeler sounds as good or better nearly all of the time, with no additional fuss of power or cables or velcro or anything.

So I say all that, but I'm still an idiot, and I have all the stuff. I'm still trying to force it to be useful...I got a Tonex One pedal last night for instance and have it hooked up with the HX Stomp and a Golden Boy Mini. Super cool looking board, but after I dig up all the power and cables and hook it up...I bet it doesn't really sound any better than either my Quad Cortex or Fractal.

TL/DR Summary:

I would only bother with a pedalboard if you have already been using pedals that you love and want to expand on that. If you're like me and have been mostly digital for the last decade, it's probably a lateral move at best and more likely a waste of time and money.

Realistically I should just sell of 90% of my gear so it's less of a distraction.

 

[Achilles]

Realistically I should just sell of 90% of my gear so it's less of a distraction.

The thought has entered my mind a lot recently that I should sell EVERYTHING to fund the best old Martin I can find
and then just spend the days sitting outside and plucking away.

 

[FuzzyAce]

The thought has entered my mind a lot recently that I should sell EVERYTHING to fund the best old Martin I can find
and then just spend the days sitting outside and plucking away.

That has crossed my mind as well. But then I think, how can I keep all this stuff AND get the Martin?