New Line 6 product speculation thread [disclosure: HX One]

ragingplatypi said:
What are the chances that we’d get a pedal with the same form factor but just amp and cab models?
Click to expand...
Doesn't seem too likely? The Line 6 thinking seems to be "if they bought into our amp modeling, they buy into all of HX, so most of those folks are going to get the HX Stomp anyway."

Or it's that they don't want to make a me-too product.
 
ragingplatypi said:
What are the chances that we’d get a pedal with the same form factor but just amp and cab models?
Click to expand...
Posted this at The Other Place©®TM where someone asked why we didn't make an amp/cab pedal instead:
  1. The target customer for HX One is the pedalboard guitarist. There are waaaay more pedalboard guitarists than there are modeler/multieffects customers. It's like asking Disney "why'd you make a movie that makes it into 1000 theaters when you could've made one that makes it into 100-200 theaters?"
  2. As soon as you add amps and cabs to a box, you need to support IR loading and probably a reverb. This necessitates adding a headphone amp, tonestack pots (not encoders), an FX loop that doesn't undermine your stereo out, additional UI/UX hardware accommodation (bigger screen, an extra switch, extra buttons to select blocks, etc.), more memory, larger storage, and proper editor development, and it also likely means a higher price point. That very quickly pushes into HX Stomp territory. Making a slightly less expensive (and lamer) HX Stomp would be at best, a waste of Line 6's time and efforts and at worst, cannibalizing ourselves by flooding the used market with HX Stomps.
  3. Other companies already make modeled-amps-in-a-pedal. I have friends at Strymon and Iridium is great (as is the UA stuff); we're not interested in developing "me too" products unless there's something truly unique and novel to be had
  4. Line 6 is also not interested in budget versions of products we already make; instead, we create the best possible product we can for a particular customer, environment, and set of use cases. (Helix LT is the exception, as it was already in development when Helix Floor was announced, in case our $1500 flagship [3x the cost of our previous flagship!] failed miserably.)
  5. Limiting a box to one effect at a time allows us to make it extremely fast and easy to use. The more features you add to a box, the harder it is to discover and navigate—and sometimes, sell.
  6. Additional reasons I can't disclose but they should be obvious in a couple of years.
 
ragingplatypi said:
What are the chances that we’d get a pedal with the same form factor but just amp and cab models?
Click to expand...

I don't see that coming. There's already the HX stomp if you need amp models.

In my opinion makes more sense an HX box with effects only than one with amp models only*.

*with only meaning having also cab and ir blocks and, imho, drives and dynamics too.
 
Digital Igloo said:
Posted this at The Other Place©®TM where someone asked why we didn't make an amp/cab pedal instead:
  1. The target customer for HX One is the pedalboard guitarist. There are waaaay more pedalboard guitarists than there are modeler/multieffects customers. It's like asking Disney "why'd you make a movie that makes it into 1000 theaters when you could've made one that makes it into 100-200 theaters?"
  2. As soon as you add amps and cabs to a box, you need to support IR loading and probably a reverb. This necessitates adding a headphone amp, tonestack pots (not encoders), an FX loop that doesn't undermine your stereo out, additional UI/UX hardware accommodation (bigger screen, an extra switch, extra buttons to select blocks, etc.), more memory, larger storage, and proper editor development, and it also likely means a higher price point. That very quickly pushes into HX Stomp territory. Making a slightly less expensive (and lamer) HX Stomp would be at best, a waste of Line 6's time and efforts and at worst, cannibalizing ourselves by flooding the used market with HX Stomps.
  3. Other companies already make modeled-amps-in-a-pedal. I have friends at Strymon and Iridium is great (as is the UA stuff); we're not interested in developing "me too" products unless there's something truly unique and novel to be had
  4. Line 6 is also not interested in budget versions of products we already make; instead, we create the best possible product we can for a particular customer, environment, and set of use cases. (Helix LT is the exception, as it was already in development when Helix Floor was announced, in case our $1500 flagship [3x the cost of our previous flagship!] failed miserably.)
  5. Limiting a box to one effect at a time allows us to make it extremely fast and easy to use. The more features you add to a box, the harder it is to discover and navigate—and sometimes, sell.
  6. Additional reasons I can't disclose but they should be obvious in a couple of years.
Click to expand...

I really love #3 and #4. Overall, I see these just as much as customer-facing reasons as I do Line 6 reasons. Love this kind of communication, too. Removes any kind of hunches while laying the facts out at the same time it displays Line 6’s overall ethos. Good stuff.
 
Digital Igloo said:
Other companies already make modeled-amps-in-a-pedal. I have friends at Strymon and Iridium is great (as is the UA stuff); we're not interested in developing "me too" products unless there's something truly unique and novel to be had
Click to expand...
There is actually an uncovered market here: the modern rock/metal player.

Strymon Iridium, Walrus ACS1, and all the UA pedals are all vintage amp stuff. Atomic Amplifirebox is probably the closest to the above. While you can turn the Strymon into a fire-breathing beast with the right drive pedal (Strymon Riverside works great!) and 4x12 V30 IRs, it's not quite the same as a something that directly models modern amps.

Not saying Line6 should swoop into that, just saying it exists.

Digital Igloo said:
Additional reasons I can't disclose but they should be obvious in a couple of years.
Click to expand...
Double Helix with capture tech confirmed!:satan
 
laxu said:
There is actually an uncovered market here: the modern rock/metal player.
Click to expand...

Yep. Kinda surprised about how TC Electronic seems to be the only company putting out high gain amp-in-a-pedal boxes as of recently (5150 and Dual Recto Ampworx's).
 
timbuck3 said:
ir-x?
Click to expand...

IR-X is specifically marketed as a tube preamp - which just happens to be housed in a box with footswitches.

Mooer had a line of micro amp-modeling pedals based on GE-xxx technology, but those haven't been updated in quite a while.
 
laxu said:
There is actually an uncovered market here: the modern rock/metal player.

Strymon Iridium, Walrus ACS1, and all the UA pedals are all vintage amp stuff. Atomic Amplifirebox is probably the closest to the above. While you can turn the Strymon into a fire-breathing beast with the right drive pedal (Strymon Riverside works great!) and 4x12 V30 IRs, it's not quite the same as a something that directly models modern amps.

Not saying Line6 should swoop into that, just saying it exists.
Click to expand...
Yes, but by the time we'd have something out, there'll be other high gain-centric versions of those pedals. I have zero inside information, but I suspect we'll see at least one or two beyond TC/B€#®!ng€® next year, maybe more.

There's still this weird thing where customers expect Line 6 to do the same thing, only cheaper. I suspect part of it comes from our history of Spider amps. "When's Line 6 going to make a [competitive product] at [60-80% of the price]?" The answer is "likely never." If we were ever able to make something super affordable (which is exceedingly difficult unless your design, R&D, and development is China-based), there'd have to be a really good reason for it.
 
It is interesting that Line 6 often get's judged by it's entry level products more than any other brand, when the fact is yall are basically the OGs of amp modelling tech (aside from what? johnson millenium?) and without y'all fractal, etc. probably would've never made it on the scene :idk

I'm plenty guilty myself of razzing L6 in the past, but I've owned and loved an awful lot of L6 products over the years (M series stuff being my favorite :D )

Really excited for these to start shipping next month, I will absolutely be an early adopter :love
 
spawnofthesith said:
It is interesting that Line 6 often get's judged by it's entry level products more than any other brand, when the fact is yall are basically the OGs of amp modelling tech (aside from what? johnson millenium?) and without y'all fractal, etc. probably would've never made it on the scene :idk
Click to expand...
Roland was actually first! But Line6 is definitely one of the OGs, along with Yamaha, Hughes&Kettner and even Fender. Frankly back in the late 1990s, Line6 was IMO far worse than what Yamaha, H&K and Fender were putting out. They were cheaper tho...

Line6 certainly has a hard time shaking the stigma of their cheaper products, while I'd say Boss has a much harder time getting into the high end game.
 
Digital Igloo said:
Additional reasons I can't disclose but they should be obvious in a couple of years.
Click to expand...
Flirty Reaction GIF
 
laxu said:
Roland was actually first! But Line6 is definitely one of the OGs, along with Yamaha, Hughes&Kettner and even Fender. Frankly back in the late 1990s, Line6 was IMO far worse than what Yamaha, H&K and Fender were putting out. They were cheaper tho...

Line6 certainly has a hard time shaking the stigma of their cheaper products, while I'd say Boss has a much harder time getting into the high end game.
Click to expand...

Could just be ignorance or my own bias from the scene I was into in the mid 2000s, but an awful lot of hard rock/metalcore/djent acts were recording and touring with PODs until the Axe FX hit the scene... did roland etc. ever really break into any scenes like that?
 
spawnofthesith said:
Could just be ignorance or my own bias from the scene I was into in the mid 2000s, but an awful lot of hard rock/metalcore/djent acts were recording and touring with PODs until the Axe FX hit the scene... did roland etc. ever really break into any scenes like that?
Click to expand...
I'd say no. The POD was genius from Line6 because it was quite affordable and portable so it made its way into a lot of studios and records.

I still say the Yamaha DG combos and heads are the best designed digital modeler ever made. Soundwise they have been surpassed ages ago, but the features were just right and the motorized pots were cool.
 
Digital Igloo said:
Posted this at The Other Place©®TM where someone asked why we didn't make an amp/cab pedal instead:
  1. The target customer for HX One is the pedalboard guitarist. There are waaaay more pedalboard guitarists than there are modeler/multieffects customers. It's like asking Disney "why'd you make a movie that makes it into 1000 theaters when you could've made one that makes it into 100-200 theaters?"
  2. As soon as you add amps and cabs to a box, you need to support IR loading and probably a reverb. This necessitates adding a headphone amp, tonestack pots (not encoders), an FX loop that doesn't undermine your stereo out, additional UI/UX hardware accommodation (bigger screen, an extra switch, extra buttons to select blocks, etc.), more memory, larger storage, and proper editor development, and it also likely means a higher price point. That very quickly pushes into HX Stomp territory. Making a slightly less expensive (and lamer) HX Stomp would be at best, a waste of Line 6's time and efforts and at worst, cannibalizing ourselves by flooding the used market with HX Stomps.
  3. Other companies already make modeled-amps-in-a-pedal. I have friends at Strymon and Iridium is great (as is the UA stuff); we're not interested in developing "me too" products unless there's something truly unique and novel to be had
  4. Line 6 is also not interested in budget versions of products we already make; instead, we create the best possible product we can for a particular customer, environment, and set of use cases. (Helix LT is the exception, as it was already in development when Helix Floor was announced, in case our $1500 flagship [3x the cost of our previous flagship!] failed miserably.)
  5. Limiting a box to one effect at a time allows us to make it extremely fast and easy to use. The more features you add to a box, the harder it is to discover and navigate—and sometimes, sell.
  6. Additional reasons I can't disclose but they should be obvious in a couple of years.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the insight. I figured there were good reasons, but my brain has little leftover DSP this week.
 
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