HX One - Noisy

[namathan_zirwir]

Had one also. Noisy. Couldn't get rid of that. Sent it back. Too bad, as it was a cool pedal

 

[EOengineer]

The white noise thing sounds strangely similar to a white noise issue some HXFX units had in certain environments. Odd.

 

[James Freeman]

If I had to guess I would say by the nature of this noise (flat, full frequency) the source of it is cheap Op-Amps and DACs at the output and loop stages.
What could have been a timeless hit was impaired by saving a buck, shame really.

 

[namathan_zirwir]

The white noise thing sounds strangely similar to a white noise issue some HXFX units had in certain environments. Odd.

I think a lot of the early HXFX units had this issue.

 

[James Freeman]

 

[norminal]

 

[spawnofthesith]

Damn that is VERY strange (and unfortunate)


Mine was definitely not like that -at all-

 

[TubeStack]

Yeah, it’s pretty obviously defective. Mine is fine.

 

[gonzoknife]

I had the exact same problem. Maybe it was a defective unit but I don't have time to experiment so I sent it back. I've read plenty of reports of this. It's on Line 6 for bad QA.

I recently got an HX Stomp (my 2nd time around). It's fine with distortion pedals in the loop or after.

 

[Orvillain]

You're always going to get a certain amount of additional noise purely because your high-gain amp sound is amplifying the DAC noisefloor. In that video he's got two Boss delays there, and I bet they do it to a certain extent as well. That's precisely why I posted those noisefloor statistics a while ago here:

Noise floor measurements

I always use my effects in front of the amp. Even with high-gain. Coz I prefer the sound and the interaction between the effects and preamp. But the trade off is noise. So I'm always curious about keeping the noise floor as low as possible. I did some measurements earlier for a bunch of stuff...

thegearforum.com

You can see there is a fair amount of variance, Now his video does sound particularly bad, but I'd really like to be able to quantify it. It seems like it might be just as bad as the Eventide H90 was (and the H9 was also very bad for it!)

It's going to be due to the quality of the conversion in these devices. A jump from -82 up to -66 when using 3 digital pedals .... I mean this is one of the things that pushes people towards multi-effects. Because there are fewer conversion stages required, thus less noise in front of an amp.

 

[James Freeman]

It's going to be due to the quality of the conversion in these devices.

Yep, and the analog topology.
HX One has an fx loop, probably permanently enabled and going through another set of DA/AD converters and opamps. It alone raises the noise floor by as much as 20dB.

 

[Sascha Franck]

HX One has an fx loop, probably permanently enabled

Oh really? That'd be a huge design flaw in my book. Not only will it add some noise (how much might be up to the used components, but on anything in that price range it will - and it will become very audible in case the device is followed by dirt boxes, as in the video above...), but it will as well add latency. I can perfectly understand the existance of that loop (especially great to run the FX pre/post as needed), but it should defenitely only be active when activated. Or at least only once there's some plugs connected. Or rather, there should be a preference of some sorts. Ideally, the I/O routing would be done in the analog domain, in that case it wouldn't be an issue.

Should be easy to find out by performing a latency comparison (with and without loop).

 

[EOengineer]

This noise is SUSPICIOUSLY close to the noise issue some early HXFX units experienced. I had to send mine in to L6 for service and honestly it still has the issue with some amps or gain pedals in the loops. It’s basically relegated that unit to being a backup as I don’t want to sell a problem to someone.

I love my Helix but I’d swap my HXFX for a Stomp in a heartbeat if I could. Absolute worst experience I’ve had with any L6 product.

Seeing this video cements the HxOne as a definitive NO for me.

 

[gonzoknife]

You're always going to get a certain amount of additional noise purely because your high-gain amp sound is amplifying the DAC noisefloor. In that video he's got two Boss delays there, and I bet they do it to a certain extent as well. That's precisely why I posted those noisefloor statistics a while ago here:

Noise floor measurements

I always use my effects in front of the amp. Even with high-gain. Coz I prefer the sound and the interaction between the effects and preamp. But the trade off is noise. So I'm always curious about keeping the noise floor as low as possible. I did some measurements earlier for a bunch of stuff...

thegearforum.com

You can see there is a fair amount of variance, Now his video does sound particularly bad, but I'd really like to be able to quantify it. It seems like it might be just as bad as the Eventide H90 was (and the H9 was also very bad for it!)

It's going to be due to the quality of the conversion in these devices. A jump from -82 up to -66 when using 3 digital pedals .... I mean this is one of the things that pushes people towards multi-effects. Because there are fewer conversion stages required, thus less noise in front of an amp.

While I had one, I tried it with the only HX One and a distortion pedal right after and direct into the amp. Still had the loud noise like the video.

 

[iaresee]

Adds a whopping +20dB of raised noise floor, unusable in-front of drive pedals or amps with even the slightest amount of gain, I can hear hiss with clean effects like delay/reverb into a clean amp.

Yea, the HX One I have here has this problem.

As an interesting counter-point: the M5 I also have here does not have this problem.

 

[iaresee]

@James Freeman it's honestly kind of embarrassing they're continuing to sell them like this. It's a pretty cool little pedal to have around but the noise makes practically useless in all but a few, niche cases.

 

[James Freeman]

@James Freeman it's honestly kind of embarrassing they're continuing to sell them like this. It's a pretty cool little pedal to have around but the noise makes practically useless in all but a few, niche cases.

It could easily be the most useful pedal on anyone's pedalboard if this issue did not exist.

No company will admit faulty hardware if it costs them more than x amount of money unless they can afford the recall, Line 6 (Yamaha) can totally afford a recall for people who have this issue and want their units fixed/replaced.
Silence is the worst and does more damage than then the money it saves, I like Line 6 and their products but I cannot say that my experience with the HX One did not change my perception of Line 6 as a company even if just a little, it did, but I also assume that a bad experience with any product has the same implication to any brand not specific to Line 6 so I take things in proportion and will not avoid purchasing their other products if they are good.
Another hard lesson I keep re-learning is about the Youtube advertisement machine, almost everything there is produced and designed to feed you a narrative, especially in our hobby, got to be more careful.

 

[iaresee]

Until the HX One, the other Line6 products I own (the M5 and the G-relay wireless system) have been rock solid.

@James Freeman I'm drafting a pretty direct letter to Line6 support about this. Having to go back to the M5 here is embarrassing for them, at the least. And it's left me with a real moral quandary. Selling on the HX One, knowing the fundamental design is flawed like this, seems unscrupulous.

Edit: ticket opened. Will report back here.

 

[iaresee]

HX One has an fx loop, probably permanently enabled and going through another set of DA/AD converters and opamps. It alone raises the noise floor by as much as 20dB.

I'm running it in stereo in/stereo out mode. That would suggest, to me, that the FX loop can be disabled internally (and is). Otherwise this mode wouldn't work as it'd be using an in/out pair for that and causing problems.

 

[James Freeman]

I'm running it in stereo in/stereo out mode. That would suggest, to me, that the FX loop can be disabled internally (and is). Otherwise this mode wouldn't work as it'd be using an in/out pair for that and causing problems.

I assumed Stereo mode uses the same signal path (Opamps+DAC) as the FX Loop and the routing mode is switched in the DSP, the analog circuitry isn't hard bypassed.