NDSP Quad Cortex

[SeeD]

There's definitely funky stuff going on with levels with the QC. It is actually quite tricky to wrap my head around. There's quite a lot of things to account for.

View attachment 29307

XLR outputs are +9.5dBu.
TRS 3+4 outputs are +15.5dBu if you use balanced cables. +9.5dBu if you use unbalanced cables. This is the first source of oddity.
The Send 1+2 outputs are +9.5dBu.

I've connected my Meris MercuryX to the send 1+2 and return 1+2. I've got the Meris setup for true bypass operation currently. I get a level increase when I turn the effects loop block on inside of the Quad Cortex. Which isn't really desirable. I can't say I've had this problem with the Helix or Axe3. I can double check, but I'm pretty sure I can just put a pedal into the loops on those units and get unity gain.

So there seems to be a bit of a juggling act with levels, and tbh, I don't even know where to start with optimizing the signal-path in order to get the right level hitting the front of outboard effects, the right level at the returns of the QC, the right level going into the PA without being too low, and the right level coming out of outputs 3+4 to send to on-stage power amplifiers.

With the Axe3 for instance, I can take a feed from output 3... turn the output 3 level knob on the front all the way up, and I know it is the same level hitting the front of a guitar amp as what it would receive if I just plugged my guitar directly into the amp.

The same does not seem to be the case for the Quad Cortex. I cannot trust that send 1 is the same level as what the amp would see if I was plugged directly in. And debugging this stuff is a mare.

Again to repeat, in 4-cable-method the QC is noticeably noisier than the the Helix and Axe3.

You can get a good sound. You can whack a noise-gate after the effects loop block to cut down any extra noise that the QC adds. But you don't need to do that with the other two devices.

It is very odd that the documentation doesn't really point any of this out, and doesn't give you any tools to improve the signal to noise ratio and to ensure unity-gain throughout the system. The Axe3 truly does.

My expectation is that you connect the thing up to a valve amp in 4-cable-method, leave all of the built in trims at 0dB, and there should be no level drops or boosts, and there should be no significant additional noise added.

Drop suport a mail. I`m sure they can help with your problem. I don`t remember, but there was something said about the Ffx loop in the QC, to get it to be unity gain. Sorry I cant help you with any more then that

 

[timbuck3]

Quad Cortex. Should I buy it?

Many thanks for the welcome @PickinPete ! Yeah, really enjoying the intuitive and fast UI. Yesterday first rehearsal with QC!! not my main band but a Pink Floyd tribute. It blew me away the ease of creating presets. As I said I’m a “one preset for all” guy and in a few minutes I could get one...

unity.neuraldsp.com

 

[Achilles]

'Pink Floyd Tribute' and 'One Preset for All' both in the same breath?
Can't be done.

 

[fiftyshadesofjay]

There's definitely funky stuff going on with levels with the QC. It is actually quite tricky to wrap my head around. There's quite a lot of things to account for.

View attachment 29307

XLR outputs are +9.5dBu.
TRS 3+4 outputs are +15.5dBu if you use balanced cables. +9.5dBu if you use unbalanced cables. This is the first source of oddity.
The Send 1+2 outputs are +9.5dBu.

I've connected my Meris MercuryX to the send 1+2 and return 1+2. I've got the Meris setup for true bypass operation currently. I get a level increase when I turn the effects loop block on inside of the Quad Cortex. Which isn't really desirable. I can't say I've had this problem with the Helix or Axe3. I can double check, but I'm pretty sure I can just put a pedal into the loops on those units and get unity gain.

So there seems to be a bit of a juggling act with levels, and tbh, I don't even know where to start with optimizing the signal-path in order to get the right level hitting the front of outboard effects, the right level at the returns of the QC, the right level going into the PA without being too low, and the right level coming out of outputs 3+4 to send to on-stage power amplifiers.

With the Axe3 for instance, I can take a feed from output 3... turn the output 3 level knob on the front all the way up, and I know it is the same level hitting the front of a guitar amp as what it would receive if I just plugged my guitar directly into the amp.

The same does not seem to be the case for the Quad Cortex. I cannot trust that send 1 is the same level as what the amp would see if I was plugged directly in. And debugging this stuff is a mare.

Again to repeat, in 4-cable-method the QC is noticeably noisier than the the Helix and Axe3.

You can get a good sound. You can whack a noise-gate after the effects loop block to cut down any extra noise that the QC adds. But you don't need to do that with the other two devices.

It is very odd that the documentation doesn't really point any of this out, and doesn't give you any tools to improve the signal to noise ratio and to ensure unity-gain throughout the system. The Axe3 truly does.

My expectation is that you connect the thing up to a valve amp in 4-cable-method, leave all of the built in trims at 0dB, and there should be no level drops or boosts, and there should be no significant additional noise added.

This is the biggest weakness with the QC in my opinion. I never got it to sound great with my Dual Rec and it always added noise and wasn’t transparent.

I did a bit of experimenting sticking it in front of a clean amp and it was a struggle to keep it transparent there as well. I did mess with levels and EQ but it never truly sounded right to me.

Tried a drive pedal in the loop and managed to get the levels sorted but still didn’t sound right. It added tons of noise as well.

I’ve never truly worked out which output you’re meant to use going into the amp either, there’s quite a lot of differing option out there.

I do like the device but it’s really only useful as a standalone unit IMO, there’s much better choices if you want to run an amp as well.

 

[DrewJD82]

Quad Cortex. Should I buy it?

Many thanks for the welcome @PickinPete ! Yeah, really enjoying the intuitive and fast UI. Yesterday first rehearsal with QC!! not my main band but a Pink Floyd tribute. It blew me away the ease of creating presets. As I said I’m a “one preset for all” guy and in a few minutes I could get one...

unity.neuraldsp.com

I don’t care if this dude were using every piece of Fractal gear, no one playing in a Floyd “tribute” band is nailing Gilmour’s tones in “a few minutes”.

 

[spawnofthesith]

POV: your bass player just got a QC so this is what he looked like the entire practice

 

[Orvillain]

That's a bassist problem, not a QC problem!

 

[laxu]

That pic shows part of why I don't like floor modelers. Crouching down to adjust things or sitting on the floor to do that is not nice. Helix's pedal edit mode is the only thing that makes it sensible.

 

[Orvillain]

"Like dude.... just turn on a fucking fuzz and play the root notes"

 

[spawnofthesith]

To be fair none of his presets he had made in the last couple days at home were working out volume wise when going into an amp either up front or into his fx return for the first time. On the bright side he took his stack home with him to get that all fully sorted on his own time

 

[mbenigni]

POV: your bass player just got a QC new modeler so this is what he looked like the entire practice

 

[mikah912]

That pic shows part of why I don't like floor modelers. Crouching down to adjust things or sitting on the floor to do that is not nice. Helix's pedal edit mode is the only thing that makes it sensible.

You can always put it on a shelf in your rack and adjust it standing up if absolutely necessary. But the fail here is in needing that much adjustment time in a live setting.

 

[Warmart]

Mentioned before that I was mulling over trying a QC.

There is now, thanks to a kind forum brother, a gently used QC otw to me!

Not selling my FM9 just yet. But we'll see what happens. I have little doubt I'll have a quicker path to tones, and will undoubtedly find some captures I like, so I'm pretty stoked!

 

[Orvillain]

Mentioned before that I was mulling over trying a QC.

There is now, thanks to a kind forum brother, a gently used QC otw to me!

Not selling my FM9 just yet. But we'll see what happens. I have little doubt I'll have a quicker path to tones, and will undoubtedly find some captures I like, so I'm pretty stoked!

mwahahaahahah! The tide is turning around this place! My long-form plan to convert everyone to NDSP shilldom is coming to fruition!

 

[2dor]

mwahahaahahah! The tide is turning around this place! My long-form plan to convert everyone to NDSP shilldom is coming to fruition!

 

[mbenigni]

mwahahaahahah! The tide is turning around this place! My long-form plan to convert everyone to NDSP shilldom is coming to fruition!

 

[mikah912]

It's inevitable that as they (slowly) nature the product, past doubters will circle back around. There's a reason everyone was super excited when this was first announced.

Even if it takes years to fulfill that vision, it's still a compelling proposition in late 2024.

 

[Achilles]

Imagine if he was having to make those changes on the fly with an FM3 instead of the Quad......

 

[likitlikeyoulikeit]

 

[Los-D]

(I’m headed in the other direction… honeymoon over. Bitch QC getting on my nerves now).