Line 6's stance on profiling

My view is that there is no reason for them to try to add a capturing/profiling feature into Helix as of today. If they include something like that in the next series of hardware products it would be because then it has become a thing that is expected to be included in all modelers.
And I don’t mean to disrespect the people that want this from Helix today, it’s just that there are good options out there I think.

However, as Ben said in the interview, the reasons for going into machine learning/capturing may be of greater significance for the modeling design team itself regarding the time and work they put into it. They are 3 people and occasionally 1 that helps out, so everything they can do to make it a better and faster process is good in the end. That is, we maybe will se a point where component “by hand” modeling combined with machine learning and profiling is the way they work. But i don’t know.
For sure - if they add it, it’ll be a different device altogether. Not a software update.

But I could still see a Helix II or some new hardware device come out that STILL doesn’t have capturing. They’ve already been working on whatever new device is coming. So who knows.
 
I look at profiles as something a person would need to use if they don't understand how amps work.

Sorry, I'm getting way too emotional, I'll see myself out. :whistle

Yep. I laughed.

But I also reflect: 10 years ago when modelling wasn't as good as it is today, it might have made sense to me to use a profiled amp as a stop-gap measure whilst we waited for the modelling world to catch up. The quality of the modelling landscape is different now, though.
 
When i read that a company don`t whant to step on another company`s `thing` how do L6 think about all the amps they make a 1: 1 copy of, or alot of the effects ??
Yeaaaah, unless the goal is to be provocative, "Blatant ripping off of GUI layout, design language, use of color, signal flow, block allocation, DSP allocation, snapshot implementation, footswitch modes, and more is no different than modelers existing!" holds no water.
Does this only aply to amps and effects (wild west) and if someone copy a nice UI in a digital space (a few things) it`s okey to freek out ?
Just thinking out loud.
Freaking out implies concern. No one's freaking out; just not afraid to point out what others (including numerous friends at other MI companies) have noticed. Cliff calls it as he sees it too; that's a big reason why I like him.

Line 6 has been blatantly copied for decades. We've been copied for so long that people now accuse us of copying our copiers. (Flextone > Flextone II > Flextone III > Katana > Catalyst). Sometimes we're first to the multieffects market with certain features, but who cares, because another company would've eventually gotten there anyway (color screen, RGB switches, maaaybe scribble strips). In other cases, it's literally impossible for a company to have landed on a massive portion (not "a few things") of their UX and feature implementation unless Product Management specifically dictated "just copy how Line 6 does it." When there are literally a thousand ways to do one thing, doing dozens of things in a nearly identical manner as someone else is not "design." At best, it's lazy opportunism.

Eh, fine, whatever—The Mooers and B€#®!ng€®s of this world will always exist. And Line 6 will continue to sell hundreds of thousands of Helix/HX SKUs because we do our own thing.

Just thinking out loud.
 
Kemper profiling is great. Much of the time, in a fair listening scenario, profiles are indiscernible from their source amp.

Some posts sorta make it seem like now there’s just one more website where people who haven’t tried a Kemper can criticize what’s wrong with it. But among non-metal pros who are touring digital, or really anyone who can’t manage heavy cartage, it’s pretty ubiquitous. Since it’s not the only or even most convenient way to go, its appeal is its sound and .. the resulting “feel” that goes along with that, and that it’s built to pro specs. For anyone who’s interested, actually interested in understanding what it’s like to work with it, versus what they may perceive as its limitations on paper vs component modeling, it’s worth trying it.

Anyway, mad respect for Digital Igloo’s perspective. It’s not as if he hasn’t been part of the revolution. I don’t own current L6 stuff, but it seems like they’re on the verge of a pretty big advance with their new cab framework. And they’re already putting insane value inside of tiny hardware boxes, which is amazing.

One reads about lots of folks loving the Hx sound, and admittedly a lot of others who love the system but find their tones more easily with Fractal and finally, when they eventually get it in their hands, Kemper.

Despite the vast and ongoing chatter of Internet naysayers since the Kemper’s release ten years ago, the second that other companies began offering iterations of what is essentially CK’s code—let’s be honest, in at least one case it’s (maybe respectfully) identical—this tech has received a ton of buzz across the boards among people who dismissed profiling since forever.

Once folks get over their surprise about how not limited and how musical the tones can be, people inevitably want this functionality at their disposal.

Conversely, as someone who’s been forced to adopt an all inside the box approach for some recent production circumstances where the Kemper hardware would be cumbersome and re-amping problematic versus making changes on the fly, I’m wishing for news from Kemper about a freestanding app and daw plug-in that reads .kpr files and lets me stay inside of their ecosystem, which has worked so well for me for so long.

But meanwhile no, not at all, it’s not the only way to get great tones. So if you’re getting the tones you want by all means don’t explore the Kemper approach, or its THU NDSP ToneX etc variants. But if you haven’t tried it and want to, while I take issue with the compromised or cheesy-looking new “competing” implementations, by most accounts they do achieve a similar startling result as the original (why wouldn’t they?).

Maybe at some point, similar to amp wiring or whatever, or even the emergence of modeling, this approach to creating guitar tones will be part of the public domain, and it’ll be less about lifting Christoph Kemper’s invention and more about truly adding to the conversation with different approaches parameters and user interfaces.

I appreciate Digital Igloo’s resistance or distaste for copping Kemper’s code. I always say it, but on guitar boards everyone seems to presume that these designers and manufacturers are all about the money, but it ain’t necessarily so. If line 6 eventually does implement a version of this tech I’m thing it would fall in to the add to the discussion category, versus others where essential parameters have been dispensed with for who knows why..

L6 will get pressure from the masses to do this.

It’s not exactly the same, but I’ve always used raster-based software, and I’ve always used vector-based software. But when more recent apps appeared that exploit both approaches and combine them, it’s hard not to be excited about that, from a creative and from a workflow perspective.

So it’s also easy to see why combining profiling with component modeling holds appeal for a lot of people.

ymmv

Does this site have a delete™ feature?!
 
Kemper profiling is great. Much of the time, in a fair listening scenario, profiles are indiscernible from their source amp.

Some posts sorta make it seem like now there’s just one more website where people who haven’t tried a Kemper can criticize what’s wrong with it. But among non-metal pros who are touring digital, or really anyone who can’t manage heavy cartage, it’s pretty ubiquitous. Since it’s not the only or even most convenient way to go, its appeal is its sound and .. the resulting “feel” that goes along with that, and that it’s built to pro specs. For anyone who’s interested, actually interested in understanding what it’s like to work with it, versus what they may perceive as its limitations on paper vs component modeling, it’s worth trying it.

Anyway, mad respect for Digital Igloo’s perspective. It’s not as if he hasn’t been part of the revolution. I don’t own current L6 stuff, but it seems like they’re on the verge of a pretty big advance with their new cab framework. And they’re already putting insane value inside of tiny hardware boxes, which is amazing.

One reads about lots of folks loving the Hx sound, and admittedly a lot of others who love the system but find their tones more easily with Fractal and finally, when they eventually get it in their hands, Kemper.

Despite the vast and ongoing chatter of Internet naysayers since the Kemper’s release ten years ago, the second that other companies began offering iterations of what is essentially CK’s code—let’s be honest, in at least one case it’s (maybe respectfully) identical—this tech has received a ton of buzz across the boards among people who dismissed profiling since forever.

Once folks get over their surprise about how not limited and how musical the tones can be, people inevitably want this functionality at their disposal.

Conversely, as someone who’s been forced to adopt an all inside the box approach for some recent production circumstances where the Kemper hardware would be cumbersome and re-amping problematic versus making changes on the fly, I’m wishing for news from Kemper about a freestanding app and daw plug-in that reads .kpr files and lets me stay inside of their ecosystem, which has worked so well for me for so long.

But meanwhile no, not at all, it’s not the only way to get great tones. So if you’re getting the tones you want by all means don’t explore the Kemper approach, or its THU NDSP ToneX etc variants. But if you haven’t tried it and want to, while I take issue with the compromised or cheesy-looking new “competing” implementations, by most accounts they do achieve a similar startling result as the original (why wouldn’t they?).

Maybe at some point, similar to amp wiring or whatever, or even the emergence of modeling, this approach to creating guitar tones will be part of the public domain, and it’ll be less about lifting Christoph Kemper’s invention and more about truly adding to the conversation with different approaches parameters and user interfaces.

I appreciate Digital Igloo’s resistance or distaste for copping Kemper’s code. I always say it, but on guitar boards everyone seems to presume that these designers and manufacturers are all about the money, but it ain’t necessarily so. If line 6 eventually does implement a version of this tech I’m thing it would fall in to the add to the discussion category, versus others where essential parameters have been dispensed with for who knows why..

L6 will get pressure from the masses to do this.

It’s not exactly the same, but I’ve always used raster-based software, and I’ve always used vector-based software. But when more recent apps appeared that exploit both approaches and combine them, it’s hard not to be excited about that, from a creative and from a workflow perspective.

So it’s also easy to see why combining profiling with component modeling holds appeal for a lot of people.

ymmv

Does this site have a delete™ feature?!
They turned off that feature; just for you :love:rofl
 
Kemper profiling is great. Much of the time, in a fair listening scenario, profiles are indiscernible from their source amp.

Some posts sorta make it seem like now there’s just one more website where people who haven’t tried a Kemper can criticize what’s wrong with it. But among non-metal pros who are touring digital, or really anyone who can’t manage heavy cartage, it’s pretty ubiquitous. Since it’s not the only or even most convenient way to go, its appeal is its sound and .. the resulting “feel” that goes along with that, and that it’s built to pro specs. For anyone who’s interested, actually interested in understanding what it’s like to work with it, versus what they may perceive as its limitations on paper vs component modeling, it’s worth trying it.

Anyway, mad respect for Digital Igloo’s perspective. It’s not as if he hasn’t been part of the revolution. I don’t own current L6 stuff, but it seems like they’re on the verge of a pretty big advance with their new cab framework. And they’re already putting insane value inside of tiny hardware boxes, which is amazing.

One reads about lots of folks loving the Hx sound, and admittedly a lot of others who love the system but find their tones more easily with Fractal and finally, when they eventually get it in their hands, Kemper.

Despite the vast and ongoing chatter of Internet naysayers since the Kemper’s release ten years ago, the second that other companies began offering iterations of what is essentially CK’s code—let’s be honest, in at least one case it’s (maybe respectfully) identical—this tech has received a ton of buzz across the boards among people who dismissed profiling since forever.

Once folks get over their surprise about how not limited and how musical the tones can be, people inevitably want this functionality at their disposal.

Conversely, as someone who’s been forced to adopt an all inside the box approach for some recent production circumstances where the Kemper hardware would be cumbersome and re-amping problematic versus making changes on the fly, I’m wishing for news from Kemper about a freestanding app and daw plug-in that reads .kpr files and lets me stay inside of their ecosystem, which has worked so well for me for so long.

But meanwhile no, not at all, it’s not the only way to get great tones. So if you’re getting the tones you want by all means don’t explore the Kemper approach, or its THU NDSP ToneX etc variants. But if you haven’t tried it and want to, while I take issue with the compromised or cheesy-looking new “competing” implementations, by most accounts they do achieve a similar startling result as the original (why wouldn’t they?).

Maybe at some point, similar to amp wiring or whatever, or even the emergence of modeling, this approach to creating guitar tones will be part of the public domain, and it’ll be less about lifting Christoph Kemper’s invention and more about truly adding to the conversation with different approaches parameters and user interfaces.

I appreciate Digital Igloo’s resistance or distaste for copping Kemper’s code. I always say it, but on guitar boards everyone seems to presume that these designers and manufacturers are all about the money, but it ain’t necessarily so. If line 6 eventually does implement a version of this tech I’m thing it would fall in to the add to the discussion category, versus others where essential parameters have been dispensed with for who knows why..

L6 will get pressure from the masses to do this.

It’s not exactly the same, but I’ve always used raster-based software, and I’ve always used vector-based software. But when more recent apps appeared that exploit both approaches and combine them, it’s hard not to be excited about that, from a creative and from a workflow perspective.

So it’s also easy to see why combining profiling with component modeling holds appeal for a lot of people.

ymmv

Does this site have a delete™ feature?!

I really like your raster vs vector metaphor. That has given me something to think about for sure.
 
Does this site have a delete™ feature?!


giphy.gif




Or



giphy.gif



#classic-meme-vault
 
It’s not exactly the same, but I’ve always used raster-based software, and I’ve always used vector-based software. But when more recent apps appeared that exploit both approaches and combine them, it’s hard not to be excited about that, from a creative and from a workflow perspective.
This hit me in the feels because not a week goes by where I don't say "Ugh, I can't do this in Illustrator? I gotta use Photoshop? Pixels, really?"
 
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