Sascha Franck
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That's too bad. Because, if I was being honest, I'd have to click yes - but I still want all the hype and L6 amps.
Line 6 Helix Stadium
- Thread starter Lysander
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That's too bad. Because, if I was being honest, I'd have to click yes - but I still want all the hype and L6 amps.
sashimi
Roadie
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At least the anti hype knob criticism isn’t quite as offensive as TB3’s insistence that all non agoura amp models should just be dumped. But they both bother me for the same reason. Why tf can’t you just ignore it? If you don’t want any features on a modeler that you aren’t going to use, maybe an all in one modeler isn’t what you’re looking for. I probably use about 10% of the features on helix. You don’t see me going around bitching that everything else needs to be removed.
laxu
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I think the Hype knob will be a great quick tool for shaping the sound of any amp model quickly into a direction that might appeal to the user. It might make a strident Marshall smoother, give a dull Normal channel of a Fender a bit more sparkle etc. Just do something that the original amp model does not do by tweaking controls.
For me, totally the opposite. The dumbest thing about the UA Ruby is how only one mode of the amp channels is adjustable with the treble/bass EQ controls. Only because the original amp was like that. But this is digital, why not just offer the option? "Turn these to zero for an authentic behavior on the Normal channel or give yourself some extra tweakability by turning them up." Purists can leave them down, others can make use of them. Instead to me the UA Ruby's Top Boost channel is the only one I actually like on that plugin. On the other plugins there's also often just one mode/channel/variant that I actually like. Same for their cab selection.
Amps have been modded for a long time. People have clipped off bright caps, swapped them for different values, altered tone stacks, added extra gain stages, used different tubes. All these make those amps "less authentic", but many have turned into signature features of brands like say Bogner, Mesa, Friedman etc.
I think the Hype knob will be effectively an adjustable amp mod from Line6. The Focus mode is like a stage tech that will tweak the amp by deciphering the interpretive dance of your finger on the touchscreen.
I've said before that I would gladly throw every brand name amp model found in modelers into the thrash can and use only original models if they sound good.
Give me the Line6 He Gets US model that sounds better than the best Fender amp models.
Give me the Line6 Super Shart model that sounds like the best Marshall "brown sound" ever made.
Give me the Line6 My Anaconda Don't Want None Unless You Got Badonk Hun model that sounds like the biggest, ballsiest, yet tight high gain thing. No matter how it's achieved.
KingsXJJ
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We can request a “sometimes” option!
Sascha Franck
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If it's really like that (and given the currently available information, it seems as if it'll at least be similar), I can't see what's not to like. And if you never use it, you never use it. Doesn't get much easier.
I would defenitely like that as well. But I'm afraid that any marketing department would rip your head off if you came up with that idea.
sashimi
Roadie
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Yeah don’t get me started on UA’s retarded approach
“We modeled the amps warts and frustrating limitations and all so it’s exactly like using the real amp. Oh want to use an artist preset? It has features that you can’t access on the pedal, all you have to do is download the bluetooth app, allow location tracking on your phone, and sign an agreement not to say mean things about UA on web forums. Just like a real AC30!”
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"Eric, can we get a thumbs up, thumbs down on the Hype knob? Ben needs Product Management's approval before we can burn everything into the production build."
"Well, you're not gonna believe this, but..."
laxu
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Oh for sure. I think it's more accepted in digital amps than multifx modelers.
MirrorProfiles
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I obviously can ignore it (how many times have I stated Im totally cool with others finding a use for it?), but why not discuss the pro's and con's with it? All I said was if I could hide it, I would, as the concept doesn't appeal to me. Baffles me how it's impossible for some people to have a discussion on things without getting culty or weirdly loyal to a particular brand. Hype is one way to skin that cat, which comes with its own pro's and con's.
Who gets to decide which one sounds best though? It just leads to situations like the 2204 with no bright cap, or broken RAT until we go full circle and end up with the stock circuits. Do we really want to go through all that shite again?
Are the devs who make amp models also the same people who happen to have the best taste with mods? I'd rather the circuits were defined by the amp companies, not an employee from another company with their own opinions. Give us the circuits we know and love and that the vast majority are familiar with. Optional mods are cool where they make sense, but even then I'd still rather they're based on stuff that is commonly done and tried and tested rather than a Frankenstein amp that is one persons idea of perfect.
Better than the best Fender amp models, best Super Shart, best high gain is all subjective and never going to satisfy as many people as just going after the stone cold classics. What's with the assumption that the stock sounds can always be improved somehow? I just don't see it. I also don't see (for instance) Fractal users saying things like "the IIC+ is so awesome and incredible authentic, but I just wish it had an extra "punch" parameter". The amps already sound great, thats why we want to use models of them. Line 6 have an INSANE collection of incredible amps, and they can afford to find the examples they like best.
Why? Are amp models based on existing circuits somehow inferior or flawed? I way prefer the real amps being the test bed for fine tuning the circuit and meeting customer demand, and once an amp has gained a reputation, to then have a digital model of it. Audio DSP engineer's aren't really privy to that kind of customer feedback and refinement, seems a waste to discard it. There's so many amps that get modded to high heaven, and then get reverted back to stock. Almost like those amp designers sometimes know what they're doing....
UA's approach with the Dumble or Rectifier give all the real world switches and modes of the real amps, and allow you to make specific tweaks that make sense for that amp that are still appropriate that that circuit. They're not as deep as Fractal, but they're still controls that a typical user won't be thrown off by. Or conversely, with Lion, just having a few very well regarded models of similar amps is nice and scratches that itch of "its the same but different". The limitations of Ruby never bothered me, nor did I feel the need for a control that affects the punch/smoothness/dynamics because the amps they've chosen to model already sound good.
I'd happily take 3 or 4 different Plexi models, or a MOA Plexi's with switches and tweaks over one model with a hype knob. I'm genuinely surprised that having a preference like that over a hype knob is so controversial to some.
FWIW, there is so much stuff in audio like this:
IRDX Core
IRDX Core — Speaker Dynamics Breathe life into your guitar amp sims and cabinet impulse responses. Simply add IRDX Core after your guitar amp or IR loader plugin and discover the natural movement, the 3D sensation, the slightly jagged edges, and the unpredictability you could previously only...
bogrendigital.com
That first make you believe there is a problem, and then they offer you the solution that promises similar kinds of improvements to the tone. How about another hype knob for the cab engine? what about for overdrive pedals and reverbs and delays? What about the compressors? I'm exaggerating of course, but the assumption that an accurate model is simply not good enough just doesn't add up to me. The more betterer knobs the......betterer.
I'll leave this there anyway, I'm clearly in the minority on this one and have made the points I wanted to make. Plus I can't be dealing with KingsXJJ getting carried away thinking he's funny.
ian_dissonance
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A lot of what is popular in guitar gear is popular because of availability and use, not necessarily because it sounds the best or is the best or whatever. Personally I appreciate an approach that says “let’s make the guys who like the classics happy and then let’s also do stuff that is completely new that isn’t restricted to what already is”. Seems limiting to think of digital stuff like it’s always an approximation of a real thing. Screw that real thing, push the digital tools as far as you can and who cares if it makes the classics fans happy, they still have the classics. CAR ANALOGY TIME: if you don’t like hybrids don’t drive one.
BenIfin
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Surely this is a gag / not a real post ?
Sascha Franck
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It's not controversial. It's just that you could as well have both.
I don't think that's even remotely comparable to what the Hype function seems to do.
THIS. We want the "mystery fun" of a Hype knob AND a MOA Plexi and JCM800 as well. The most popular mods are fairly well-documented. Add them as channels on the current Agoura models in some firmware down the line. Keep the Hype knob with that too!
GTR37
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I totally get it you do not want to add mods unless they are your own choosing and that’s fair
But as long as it not slowing down the processor or affecting anything why can’t it be both
Why can’t Ben have his idealized sound or if someone loves their SLO plug-in and a little hype gets them to the same spot , I don’t think that necessarily a bad thing if it is not detrimental to the unit
You just never have to use it
Maybe in certain cases and certain situations you may even like what it does , but saying it is better not there is kinda like the Timbuck argument about removing the legacy fx , is it not
BenIfin
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..... glad to see my idea about re-naming the Hype Knob was so universally loved and accepted
On a serious note - seeing this work on an Amp Block is brilliant - and given you will be able to load / record your own dry clips, this is going to take tweaking any Amp or Effect Block into the realms of idiot-proof-do-it-in-no-time - adjusting at least 8 parameters interactively and in real time with your chosen guitar clip being used.
Whilst I obviously haven't tried it .... it is such a leap forward that once used, I would expect it will be "the way" to get you into the zone of the sounds you want.
Going to be very interesting to see how devotee's of other platforms try to shit-bag this feature once they see it in action - and then at some stage down the track when a similar feature is implemented [copied] into their platform, it will be the tears of Jesus captured in a bottle.
I know it cant be done, but it would be awesome, just to shit others, if L6 could lock this feature down with a Copyright :)
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MirrorProfiles
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As I keep saying, Im not saying it's something that I think should be removed. I just have no interest at all in it. If people want to get giddy over Line 6 Employee _____'s idealised version of every single amp, good for them. It's not really a thought that has ever appealed to me.
"This IIC+ is KILLER, but I wonder how Ben Adrian would improve it? MAYBE I'll like that even more!".
Again, I'm not saying to remove it or that people shouldn't use it or enjoy it. It's just of absolutely zero interest to me, I'm not looking to deviate from a well modelled amp unless it's with mods I can apply myself. Or I'd just switch to another amp if I need a different kind of response. Modellers already offer so many ways of manipulating the tone in a direct way that the mystery fun control isn't on my radar.
And I'm just fine with that because the stock models will do everything I'm looking for already.
Before the TimBuck comparisons get out of hand
He is suggesting removing things that are already good, which is nuts. I'm saying that good accurate stock models are plenty for me and this particular feature is not a selling point to me in the way that many of the other new features absolutely are. It's a novelty that'll change the tone a bit, cool. A different implementation might interest me more but I'll survive.MORE IS MORE!
laxu
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I think original models are great because they remove a lot of expectation, and instead lead people to evaluating a sound not based on how authentic it sounds to its real world counterpart, but whether it sounds good or not.
They can also do things that are difficult to achieve in real world circuits if the designer so wishes.
After owning so many modelers, I've come to the conclusion that the number of amp models or which specific real amps are modeled is just not very interesting to me. If there's just a handful of models that will give me the sounds I'm looking for, I'm good.
It often leads me to "eh, fuck all this modeling nonsense, don't need it" paths only to eventually come back because it's fun to experiment and modelers are practical after all.
Most days I can be left parked on the Vintage channel on either of my BluGuitar amps and I'll be happy just playing that and want for nothing else.
Sascha Franck
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Every bit this. And yes, I'm serious.
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Not at launch, but eventually, yes.
At launch, the zones are fixed, so I'm sure there'll be plenty of complaints on the settings (EDIT: and zone names!) we've chosen. They're really just meant to be a springboard for your own sounds anyway.
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Listen, I saw the "Ping-Pong Delay" zone names in today's clips......forget the haters! There's no reason you can't have your trademark personality permeating the unit while also giving descriptive and helpful notes in the preset.
It's a block preset. If you like it, who cares what it's called from the factory? If you don't, you know never to go there in Focus View.
