Line 6 Helix Stadium Talk

[dk_ace]

Here is Deadpan's EVH 5150 III 100W:



And here is the Agoura model at eyeballed settings. I wouldn't expect a perfect match, but it should be in the ballpark (where a few nudges and tweaks would get them very close):



Now if we compare with Helix. I used my own IR here as I dont know what Deadpan used on his original clip. I also didnt know what settings he used, so I dialled in by ear. So first we have the real amp:



and here is what I dialled in with Helix Native (settings compared below):



Real amp settings were this (not the cranked presence and treble and what kind of result you'd expect from that):

View attachment 56488

and Helix Native:

View attachment 56489

Maybe I could have dialled them closer still if I knew the original amp settings, but they're surprisingly close.

EQ responses dont really tell the full story but regardless. The flatter the line, the smaller the EQ difference from the original amp. The green line is the difference between real amp and Agoura in the 1st example. Notice the roll off in the top end. The Red line is what I dialled in by ear. Maybe if I'd have dialled the bass knob closer to the real amp's actual settings that would be closer still. The rest of the line is pretty straight.
View attachment 56492

What is anyone supposed to do with that? You didn’t use the same IR, so there’s virtually nothing anyone could conclude here other than that they sound different just as one would expect them to. Different cab, speaker, mic, mic position, preamp, and who knows on eq treatment.

D

 

[banned]

I’m not trying to be a dick, but do you feel like this is an actionable contribution? If you were the recipient, would you be able to negotiate dropping other priorities and pivoting your engineers and devs to take this goose chase on over some other important feature based on this?

I don't think there was anything wrong with that I said. I just suggested looking at some of the other models as well and not just focusing on the 5153, because it's not just a single model. Could also turn up something quicker if it's something to do with the 'base' model.

I do think this is a key priority, as many would say that tone is the principal thing. I fully purchased the Stadium intending to keep it but wasn't 100% sold on the tones. The features do appeal to me but if the tone isn't there, I can't justify the outlay.

 

[EOengineer]

I don't think there was anything wrong with that I said. I just suggested looking at some of the other models as well and not just focusing on the 5153, because it's not just a single model. Could also turn up something quicker if it's something to do with the 'base' model.

I do think this is a key priority as many would say that tone is the principal thing. I fully purchased the Stadium intending to keep it but wasn't 100% sold on the tones. The features do appeal to me but if the tone isn't there, I can't justify the outlay.

That’s fair. My apologies, all good.

 

[JiveTurkey]

What is anyone supposed to do with that? You didn’t use the same IR, so there’s virtually nothing anyone could conclude here other than that they sound different just as one would expect them to. Different cab, speaker, mic, mic position, preamp, and who knows on eq treatment.

D

Sounds like it's Deadpan Free IR Sample time!

 

[Orvillain]

What's interesting is that so many people in our A/B/X listening tests called Agoura less "synthetic" (and IIRC, "less homogenous") than the usual suspects, including the most popular box on this forum. Still, we'll take another look/listen.

It definitely doesn't sound synthetic. It DOES sound real. But there seems to be an issue with being able to access high frequency content, fizz, presence, whatever you want to call it. I don't trust frequency response graphs entirely, because they don't show the full picture.

But...

This is white noise being routed into:
Helix Native 2203
NDSP Nameless
Stadium Agoura 2203

All I've done is turned cabs off, and cranked the treble and presence on each amp. I left the rest of the defaults alone.

You can see that there's definitely a more subdued high-end response compared to the others. I don't know why, and I know this isn't strictly the most scientific test. But this is something I have observed over a number of weeks, and it directly relates to that recent exchange we had when we met down at the docks to exchange illicit substances.

Anyway.. what am I saying .... I think it is entirely possible that a bug has snuck in in relation to the speaker impedance curves, or something else. Actually I notice that the frequency response doesn't really change when switching stock cabs around. Maybe that is a clue?

I really hope this is just a simple forehead smackable bug, because I'm starting to get a bit bummed out. I know that comparison is the thief of joy and all the rest of it. But I cannot help but think there is something really wrong here.

I'm really not trying to be an arsehole or rock the boat for no good reason, just have to voice this thought because it has been nagging away at me.

Aside from this subdued high-frequencies issue, I have been enjoying Stadium a lot. I really just want to help make it the best it can be.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I must be weird because I get great tone and feel out of all the Agoura models by doing what I do with my two Fractal boxes... Tweak them to what I love at good volumes and move to the next one.

I'm able to do the same thing with HX amp models on Stadium as well.

I've done the same thing with the amp models I use in Fractal Axe FX III and FM9.

On any of the modelers, I run post speaker cab 10 band or Mesa style graphic EQ's for final at dial in after each model's amp controls have been dialed in as close as possible!

Not all models don't necessarily float my boat just like with real tone amps.

TBF this is conflating tones you personally like, with accuracy (the amps sounding the way they’re intended). Hopefully with an accurate mode it can be dialled even more to one’s liking.

What is anyone supposed to do with that? You didn’t use the same IR, so there’s virtually nothing anyone could conclude here other than that they sound different just as one would expect them to.

D

Think you misinterpreted the post, the same IR was used in each set of comparisons (just that @deadpan’s original reamps used a different IR to mine.

Different cab, speaker, mic, mic position, preamp, and who knows on eq treatment.

No, they are consistent and applied equally where it matters. There’s no EQ or other processing going on. Otherwise it wouldn’t be demonstrating anything. I’m not sure how familiar everyone is with that amp, but it’s pretty obviously not sounding correct IMO. The audio comparisons and graphs are just demonstrating it beyond any doubt.

I really hope this is just a simple forehead smackable bug, because I'm starting to get a bit bummed out. I know that comparison is the thief of joy and all the rest of it. But I cannot help but think there is something really wrong here.

I'm really not trying to be an arsehole or rock the boat for no good reason, just have to voice this thought because it has been nagging away at me.

Aside from this subdued high-frequencies issue, I have been enjoying Stadium a lot. I really just want to help make it the best it can be.

Big +1 here. I’m only posting this stuff because I want the modelling to be the best it can be and something does not seem right.

The best way to prove that nothing is wrong is to provide similar examples of the amps sounding and responding like the real deal does. Dialing in good tones, and enjoying the feel don’t really help in this instance.

Big respect to @Digital Igloo for getting things looked out, it’s why we love you!

 

[EOengineer]

It definitely doesn't sound synthetic. It DOES sound real. But there seems to be an issue with being able to access high frequency content, fizz, presence, whatever you want to call it. I don't trust frequency response graphs entirely, because they don't show the full picture.

But...

View attachment 56525

This is white noise being routed into:
Helix Native 2203
NDSP Nameless
Stadium Agoura 2203

All I've done is turned cabs off, and cranked the treble and presence on each amp. I left the rest of the defaults alone.

You can see that there's definitely a more subdued high-end response compared to the others. I don't know why, and I know this isn't strictly the most scientific test. But this is something I have observed over a number of weeks, and it directly relates to that recent exchange we had when we met down at the docks to exchange illicit substances.

Anyway.. what am I saying .... I think it is entirely possible that a bug has snuck in in relation to the speaker impedance curves, or something else. Actually I notice that the frequency response doesn't really change when switching stock cabs around. Maybe that is a clue?

I really hope this is just a simple forehead smackable bug, because I'm starting to get a bit bummed out. I know that comparison is the thief of joy and all the rest of it. But I cannot help but think there is something really wrong here.

I'm really not trying to be an arsehole or rock the boat for no good reason, just have to voice this thought because it has been nagging away at me.

Aside from this subdued high-frequencies issue, I have been enjoying Stadium a lot. I really just want to help make it the best it can be.

Is the SIC handling the same for each of these platforms? I know Stadium and Helix both still apply a SIC with cabs bypassed. I’m honestly not sure about the other platforms.

EDIT: also interesting noticing the low end peak is in different places Hx vs Agoura. Those look like different SIC to me but it’s hard to know for sure without being able to bypass the SIC.

 

[EOengineer]

Oh shit!!!!

Gonna have to check out that IIC+ action tonight.

 

[dk_ace]

TBF this is conflating tones you personally like, with accuracy (the amps sounding the way they’re intended). Hopefully with an accurate mode it can be dialled even more to one’s liking.


Think you misinterpreted the post, the same IR was used in each set of comparisons (just that @deadpan’s original reamps used a different IR to mine.


No, they are consistent and applied equally where it matters. There’s no EQ or other processing going on. Otherwise it wouldn’t be demonstrating anything. I’m not sure how familiar everyone is with that amp, but it’s pretty obviously not sounding correct IMO. The audio comparisons and graphs are just demonstrating it beyond any doubt.



Big +1 here. I’m only posting this stuff because I want the modelling to be the best it can be and something does not seem right.

The best way to prove that nothing is wrong is to provide similar examples of the amps sounding and responding like the real deal does. Dialing in good tones, and enjoying the feel don’t really help in this instance.

Big respect to @Digital Igloo for getting things looked out, it’s why we love you!

You are saying that the deadpan clip uses a different IR than what you used for your clips on the L6 stuff, correct?

D

 

[Orvillain]

You are saying that the deadpan clip uses a different IR than what you used for your clips on the L6 stuff, correct?

No. He's using an amp-only render of Deadpan's reamp, through his own IR. As I understand it.

 

[Gary_W]

The 1.2 update is here... Downloading now...

Sorry if I’m being silly but….

My XL is connected to WiFi. I’m not seeing an update (I think I saw a video where it tells you top left of the touchscreen)

 

[Mongillo19]

Sorry if I’m being silly but….

My XL is connected to WiFi. I’m not seeing an update (I think I saw a video where it tells you top left of the touchscreen)

Yeah I'm not seeing it either. Mine says it's up to date

 

[Mongillo19]

It's not on their download site either. Guy might just be a troll?

Why, idk?

 

[Vic Winters]

It's not official in my eyes until DI posts the release notes.

 

[AlbertA]

The 1.2 update is here... Downloading now...

Are you participating in the beta? I don't see a reference to the update anywhere right now (FB group, website, app, stadium XL itself).

 

[MirrorProfiles]

You are saying that the deadpan clip uses a different IR than what you used for your clips on the L6 stuff, correct?

D

Deadpan put clips in this thread a few pages back. His original clips use one of his IR’s.

My clips use the same amp DI’s but with my own IR’s. The comparisons are using the same IR to make it fair

 

[Storms]

Are you participating in the beta? I don't see a reference to the update anywhere right now (FB group, website, app, stadium XL itself).

The manual would definitely be updated with Showcase info which it is not

 

[Mongillo19]

Man, that's a few people now who have spilled the beans on 1.2.

Gotta be careful folks

 

[EOengineer]

A few future former beta testers.

 

[dk_ace]

Deadpan put clips in this thread a few pages back. His original clips use one of his IR’s.

My clips use the same amp DI’s but with my own IR’s. The comparisons are using the same IR to make it fair

Ahh…

I misunderstood.