Line 6 Helix Stadium Talk

[Orvillain]

Well, it basically really only depends on CPU power. More juice = less calculation time needed.

This is wrong. At the very least, your latency time is dictated by the lowest note you want to support. Because you need at least a full cycle in order to correctly detect the pitch, in order to perform any shifting in the first place.

A low E on bass? 23ms minimum.

Even if you had some kind of magic nuclear computer, you still wouldn't be able to avoid latency. More juice does not equal less calculation time needed.

But there are also other sources of latency. Lookahead times in order to properly handle transient content. STFT or phase vocoder frame delay - which usually introduce half a window of algorithmic delay. Even if you take a granular approach to your algorithm, there's still the build up time required to gather enough samples to form a grain, and to then overlap multiple grains and apply crossfades.

Even resample based shifters introduce group delay.

There is always latency when it comes to pitch shifting.

 

[mikah912]

Yeah I'm aware of that. But whenever I layer up a Plexi style amp with another, like a Diezel or something, I rarely like it.

Actually one of the best tones I ever had was stacking my VH4 with the Crunch Red channel on my Satriani JVM. Roll on proxy hey!!!!

Layer it with the HX Diezel. You might be surprised.

 

[dean701]

Okay. I'm going to reveal my ignorance here a bit.

How do I get a good tone out of a Plexi??? Because I keep failing. I want to get an Adam Jones kind of tone. Nice chuggo's and soaring leads. But I just end up with fuzzy wooly bullcack every time.

What do I do with the drive controls??

I play in Drop-B and Drop-C. I guess that might be the issue?

I'm pretty sure Adam Jones relies on the Diezel VH4 for his sound. If you're looking for more of the classic rock sound then the plexi is king.

 

[GTR37]

I'm pretty sure Adam Jones relies on the Diezel VH4 for his sound. If you're looking for more of the classic rock sound then the plexi is king.

I just found this guy from Montreal demoing all the Wolfgang’s and some Charvel
Kid is insane
Also make me want the guitars

 

[DanRad]

Is there a good Angoura amp for clean/acoustic sounds, or is Clarity still the gold standard for that?

One thing I'm running into is that if I swap in Clarity to a preset that has a Jazz Rivet in it (left over from before I discovered the Clarity), I'm getting almost a fuzz sound from the default settings and have to really work to dial that back to something clean and acoustic-sounding. Anyone else running into that?

I'm definitely have issues with Clarity acting like there's a fuzz pedal somewhere in the chain. I cannot figure out what's happening, but it did not happen with my OG Helix.

 

[banned]

Okay. I'm going to reveal my ignorance here a bit.

How do I get a good tone out of a Plexi??? Because I keep failing. I want to get an Adam Jones kind of tone. Nice chuggo's and soaring leads. But I just end up with fuzzy wooly bullcack every time.

What do I do with the drive controls??

I play in Drop-B and Drop-C. I guess that might be the issue?

Switch to the Helix Plexi. If needed, change Sag (I usually dial up to between 8-9).

If you want more dirt - add the Top Secret OD in front.

The Stadium Plexi I can't seem to get along with. It can sound ok over headphones but when I play through a real guitar cab, it's just no good - wooly, splatty, muffled.

 

[GTR37]

Switch to the Helix Plexi. If needed, change Sag (I usually dial up to between 8-9).

If you want more dirt - add the Top Secret OD in front.

The Stadium Plexi I can't seem to get along with. It can sound ok over headphones but when I play through a real guitar cab, it's just no good - wooly, splatty, muffled.

To be fair Bogner blue is based on a later 70s JMP
It will be a bit darker before tweaking but you should be able to find similar tones to a hot plexi
Basically Bogner blue JMP w 3 gain stage jcm800 level
Bogner Red same but 4 gain stage equivalent of SLO

 

[mikah912]

To be fair Bogner blue is based on a later 70s JMP
It will be a bit darker before tweaking but you should be able to find similar tones to a hot plexi
Basically Bogner blue JMP w 3 gain stage jcm800 level
Bogner Red same but 4 gain stage equivalent of SLO

Speaking of the Bogner Red, I happened upon a tone with it and a combo of the 4x12 Soldano and Cartographer cabs that just floored me. Had to play it non-stop for 30 minutes.

Seriously, it's one of the best rhythm tones I've had across any profiler or modeler. Had to save both of them as favorites.

Setting up everything I can think of is such a pleasure, and there's DSP to spare. Also, haven't had any connection issues with the editor. Just loving the experience with this thing.

 

[AZG]

Also I compared the Agoura Bogner XTC amps to the Fractal ones. And I massively prefer the Agoura models. I don't know which is more realistic, but the Agoura ones are tight and punchy, like a loud Marshall. I went and listened to some clips on Youtube today, and my gut feel is the Agoura ones are more accurate to the amp.

I got to spend some time A/B testing the Bogner on Stadium and the FM3. I agree that i think that model is better on Stadium. However I still prefer the plexi and 800 models on the FM3. Won’t get a chance to touch it again until Sunday, but looking forward to comparing a few more models.

 

[GTR37]

I got to spend some time A/B testing the Bogner on Stadium and the FM3. I agree that i think that model is better on Stadium. However I still prefer the plexi and 800 models on the FM3. Won’t get a chance to touch it again until Sunday, but looking forward to comparing a few more models.

Ya I wish FAS would get one of the older 90s XTC 101b to model to me they had the mojo before Reinhold modded them for more gain and compression in early 2000s

 

[GTR37]

Speaking of the Bogner Red, I happened upon a tone with it and a combo of the 4x12 Soldano and Cartographer cabs that just floored me. Had to play it non-stop for 30 minutes.

Seriously, it's one of the best rhythm tones I've had across any profiler or modeler. Had to save both of them as favorites.

Setting up everything I can think of is such a pleasure, and there's DSP to spare. Also, haven't had any connection issues with the editor. Just loving the experience with this thing.

This thread really needs some more clips

 

[mikah912]

This thread really needs some more clips

It's tough for me right now because I have family staying over and someone's sleeping in the bedroom I use as my studio.

Everything frees up after Thanksgiving week and weekend.

 

[Elf]

5. I cannot wait for Proxy.

Great review, playing and tones! Off topic question, do you have the choice to mute the click or the track voice and just have the band director in you in ears?

 

[Sascha Franck]

This is wrong. At the very least, your latency time is dictated by the lowest note you want to support. Because you need at least a full cycle in order to correctly detect the pitch, in order to perform any shifting in the first place.

So, are you saying it's like pitch to MIDI?
In that case, higher notes would have less latency. Which they don't.
And are you saying it needs 23ms min to calculate the pitch shifting of a low E string? Again, that's not happening, there's pitch shifters doing it quicker.
I don't buy that explanation.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Do you seriously think the only reason pitch shifters have latency is because the people writing them are not as smart as you?

What a nonsense reply is that? Do you even read what you type?

 

[LP59]

Edit. Never mind. That doesn't deserve a reply. This is the first time on TGF I've ever had the need to mark a member "Ignored".

 

[Sascha Franck]

Edit. Never mind. That doesn't deserve a reply. This is the first time on TGF I've ever had the need to mark a member "Ignored".

Way to go when you run dry of arguments.

 

[sashimi]

 

[Orvillain]

So, are you saying it's like pitch to MIDI?
In that case, higher notes would have less latency. Which they don't.
And are you saying it needs 23ms min to calculate the pitch shifting of a low E string? Again, that's not happening, there's pitch shifters doing it quicker.
I don't buy that explanation.

What do you mean by "pitch to MIDI" ?? If you mean "audio to midi" yes, it is a similar problem.

Some pitch shifting algorithms use a multi-resolution approach in order to reduce latency even further.

But you've done this before; the insistence that you know better, when you clearly don't. Go and read some papers on pitch shifting algorithms, understand them, use ChatGPT to translate them into normal human language if you have to. Here, I'll start you off:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/261078164_Low_latency_audio_pitch_shifting_in_the_frequency_domain

The bottom line is, there are actually quite a few approaches. From basic resampling algorithms, to granularized approaches, to STFT based pitch shifters, there are many ways to skin the cat. But there are always trade-offs, and latency is a big one.

 

[EOengineer]

So, are you saying it's like pitch to MIDI?
In that case, higher notes would have less latency. Which they don't.
And are you saying it needs 23ms min to calculate the pitch shifting of a low E string? Again, that's not happening, there's pitch shifters doing it quicker.
I don't buy that explanation.