Line 6 Helix Stadium Talk

[dean701]

I just found this guy from Montreal demoing all the Wolfgang’s and some Charvel
Kid is insane
Also make me want the guitars

yep, Jacob is a shooter.
He was endorsed by EVH so he gets new guitars sent to him almost weekly. Killer plexi tone. He has a plexi comparison video and he has one video where he compares a ton of pickups. In the end he just laughs and says they are all so close, it really doesn't matter. It goes to show that the amp and the cab make up most of the tone. He is a big WG fan and he got me searching for a Wolfgang Special again. Damn him.

 

[dean701]

Switch to the Helix Plexi. If needed, change Sag (I usually dial up to between 8-9).

If you want more dirt - add the Top Secret OD in front.

The Stadium Plexi I can't seem to get along with. It can sound ok over headphones but when I play through a real guitar cab, it's just no good - wooly, splatty, muffled.

Your headphones and your cab are going to sound vastly different even if you are disabling the cab block. You may want to put a high shelf at 2.5k when using a cab and you may need to do some cuts to clean the mud. Headphones and I don't get along. The last thing I want is to re-do all of my presets so they sound good on phones and then have to claw my way back when plugging into something else. My solution was building a soundproof room in a room. My wife used to sleep and I could max out a guitar cabinet. She couldn't even hear it.

 

[Sascha Franck]

But there are always trade-offs, and latency is a big one.

It still doesn't take 23ms to pitch any E0, which is what you are saying would be a necessity.

 

[Orvillain]

It still doesn't take 23ms to pitch any E0, which is what you are saying would be a necessity.

You are a very stupid person. I don't know if anyone has ever told you this in a sincere way before, but it is true.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Okay. I'm going to reveal my ignorance here a bit.

How do I get a good tone out of a Plexi??? Because I keep failing. I want to get an Adam Jones kind of tone. Nice chuggo's and soaring leads. But I just end up with fuzzy wooly bullcack every time.

What do I do with the drive controls??

I play in Drop-B and Drop-C. I guess that might be the issue?

Some of the older Helix Plexi’s (Brit Plexi and Brit Trem) can get fairly close, it just depends on the version of the circuit. Adam’s amp is closer to a 1959 than a Super Bass (although it has some Super Bass values left over). If the Agoura model is an earlier circuit it won’t be right, Jones’s amp is very much the late 70’s circuit.

A lot of people think his tone is the Marshall when what they’re hearing is more Dual Recto or Diezel. His Marshall tones sound very much like a Super Lead to me. There are spots on the earlier albums where it’s easy to pick out

 

[Sascha Franck]

You are a very stupid person. I don't know if anyone has ever told you this in a sincere way before, but it is true.

Talk to yourself. You should rather try to understand what you're posting. That'd be time well spent.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Because you need at least a full cycle in order to correctly detect the pitch, in order to perform any shifting in the first place.

A low E on bass? 23ms minimum.

What will you eat if I prove this is not happening?

 

[[Nathan]]

Im not going to pretend to understand the detailed ins and outs of polyshifting technology. But I know boss spent years on refining the new pedals striking what they feel is the best balance of latency to performance. Polychrome hyper tune is fast as shit and I can still feel the tiniest of drag. Surprisingly neuraldsp feels snappier but the quality is noticeably worse (usable for sure but quality is a trade off).

This is all a long winded way of saying smarter people than us have spent their professional time on this tech and it is what it is for now, you can’t just throw horsepower at it to reduce the latency.

 

[Orvillain]

Talk to yourself. You should rather try to understand what you're posting. That'd be time well spent.

I fully understand what I am posting.

What will you eat if I prove this is not happening?

Absolutely nothing. I owe you nothing. I've educated you. It is up to you to research it further if you really want to know how these things work.

If you go back and re-read what I have been saying, you'll understand that there are multiple ways to perform pitch shifting, and not all of them would require 23ms to represent an E0. However, that doesn't change the absolute fact that an E0 is 23ms long - 24.2ms to be exact - for a single cycle.

If you're pitching shifting on a pitch detection basis - whether you use autocorrelation, zero-crossing analysis, FFT peak-tracking - then you absolutely need to have at least one full cycle of the waveform to be able to analyse the pitch. This does not mean that latency would change from pitch to pitch. That simply isn't how it works and belies a gross misunderstanding and ignorance on your part.

If you are using a time-domain granular approach, phase-vocoder shifting, or resampling approaches, then you're avoiding pitch detection altogether. Which means you can reduce the latency. This is what the Whammy does. It is also probably what Helix does.

As I said in a previous post - there are many ways to perform this operation. But there are always trade offs. Latency is always a factor, but some approaches are worse than others. The lower latency approaches have issues with phase reconstruction and sound quality.

 

[Orvillain]

Im not going to pretend to understand the detailed ins and outs of polyshifting technology. But I know boss spent years on refining the new pedals striking what they feel is the best balance of latency to performance. Polychrome hyper tune is fast as shit and I can still feel the tiniest of drag. Surprisingly neuraldsp feels snappier but the quality is noticeably worse (usable for sure but quality is a trade off).

This is all a long winded way of saying smarter people than us have spent their professional time on this tech and it is what it is for now, you can’t just throw horsepower at it to reduce the latency.

You've demonstrated that while you may not understand the underlying technology, you understand the concept that there are different approaches with different pros and cons. Which is more than Sascha has ever acknowledged.

 

[[Nathan]]

You've demonstrated that while you may not understand the underlying technology, you understand the concept that there are different approaches with different pros and cons. Which is more than Sascha has ever acknowledged.

I hit strings, I notice shit

 

[2dor]

I hit strings, I notice shit

 

[Sascha Franck]

Absolutely nothing. I owe you nothing. I've educated you. It is up to you to research it further if you really want to know how these things work.

I will simply prove you're wrong.
Educate yourself.

And yes, you said it'd take 23 min to pitch a low bass E string. Word by word.

 

[Orvillain]

I will simply prove you're wrong.
Educate yourself.

And yes, you said it'd take 23 min to pitch a low bass E string. Word by word.

You're supremely literal, supremely unintelligent, arrogant, ignorant, and a custard gannet.

 

[Sascha Franck]

And fwiw:

If you're pitching shifting on a pitch detection basis - whether you use autocorrelation, zero-crossing analysis, FFT peak-tracking - then you absolutely need to have at least one full cycle of the waveform to be able to analyse the pitch.

Of course but you don't need to do that for static pitch shifting. And that's what we're talking about here.

 

[Sascha Franck]

You're supremely literal, supremely unintelligent, arrogant, ignorant, and a custard gannet.

And very likely I'm still much more intelligent than you. What does that leave you with?

 

[Orvillain]

And fwiw:



Of course but you don't need to do that for static pitch shifting. And that's what we're talking about here.

The fundamental reason for my response was to point that your statement, accurately and literally and any-other-ly attributed to you:

Well, it basically really only depends on CPU power. More juice = less calculation time needed.

This is just simply wrong. On every level.

You wanna bite at twigs instead of noticing you're trapped in a forest of loneliness, isolation, and complete and total spiritual desolation.

I'm not there with you. I'm on a beach in some sweet looking lime green speedos.

 

[Orvillain]

And very likely I'm still much more intelligent than you. What does that leave you with?

If that were true, then your idea of how DSP works wouldn't be reducible to a fucking bumper sticker.

 

[Orvillain]

23 min

That time Sascha confused milliseconds for minutes.

 

[Sascha Franck]

If that were true, then your idea of how DSP works wouldn't be reducible to a fucking bumper sticker.

See, I have an idea about how pitch shifting works without studying DSP. You're studying DSP and apparently still get things wrong.