Line 6 Helix Stadium Talk

[Orvillain]

Thanks for doing this video, great job with diving into the settings and showing what effect they have. Not only did your video demonstrate exactly what I was hearing in all other Agoura demos, I also agree with your opinion on having a preference for the old model. Your descriptions were spot on. The legacy models sounds much more like how I’d dial the amp and don’t need to resort to messing with deeper parameters to get there.

I found the Legacy models to be most of the way there in their modelling - differences to the real amps were generally quite minor and didn’t need a lot of work to match. Agoura models seem to be further away from the real deal, and if they measure more accurately I have to wonder how they’re being tested. I really thought Agoura would just hone in on the last 3% of differences but instead they seem to have brought some very different tones to the high gain amps. The distortion character is really different and it doesn’t seem to be able to be dialled out, even at lower MV settings.

Everyone has their preference on what they like, and are welcome to it. I don’t think the Agoura models sound very good or accurate to the real deal so far on high gain models, given how close the old ones were. I’m guessing it was fairly straightforward to make the old EVH model sound like your real EVH - do you think the Agoura models can get as close? And if so, do you think it would take more work or less work to get there?

So for the benefit of everyone else, Ed and I were just discussing this. We have quite different takes on it.

At first the two amps sound quite comparable. But when I listen closely, I detect a mid-range difference between the two, and the old model has something going on that I'm not digging, whereas Agoura seems a bit more clearer - has a more 'Fractal'-esque clarity to it.

The legacy has a kind of cocked wah thing going on
.
13:15 ... the chugs on the new one... the fundamental note really cuts through a LOT more than the legacy one to my ears.

13:51 is a good moment to hear it too. Where he jumps from new to old, and all of a sudden there's a fogginess that gets added when he goes back to the old.

It's almost like there's a white noise generator mixed into the front of the amp, creating all this unrelated shit.

My vote goes to Agoura - but I'd probably have matched the gains a bit better. The newer one seemed undergained to me versus the legacy.

 

[ian_dissonance]

They were different ones that failed at different times. Idk man it comes up if you search around here or TOP. Having to send mine off once a year kind of seems high when I've never had to for any other pedal I've ever owned but maybe that's my own luck.

If you search “xxx product xxx component problem” you’ll find problems. Unless they’re using different switches my floor from launch and my LT from launch never had any issues over the life of me using them. That really sucks that your unit was unreliable.

 

[holoholo]

If you search “xxx product xxx component problem” you’ll find problems. Unless they’re using different switches my floor from launch and my LT from launch never had any issues over the life of me using them. That really sucks that your unit was unreliable.

Yea for sure but it just seems higher than normal (not like I have any statistics on it ). We have even our own Alex Kenivel posting vids about doing it:

Thread 'Line 6 Helix DIY Footswitch Repair'

Feb 25, 2024

Here was round 1, before I had much experience with electronics:


And round 2 from yesterday:

• Alex Kenivel
• Replies: 5
• Forum: Do It Yourself

• 
• 

I'm pretty sure he's had to do it more than once too.

 

[GLiDE-BPM]

 

[ian_dissonance]

Yea for sure but it just seems higher than normal (not like I have any statistics on it ). We have even our own Alex Kenivel posting vids about doing it:

Thread 'Line 6 Helix DIY Footswitch Repair'

Feb 25, 2024

Here was round 1, before I had much experience with electronics:


And round 2 from yesterday:

• Alex Kenivel
• Replies: 5
• Forum: Do It Yourself

• 
• 

I'm pretty sure he's had to do it more than once too.

*something something* foot switch not leg switch, lol

 

[Mooselake]

I think my problem was a driver installation sequence issue on one laptop. My other PC is running fine with it for a second day in a row. We'll see but it seems solid now.

Pebble Phaser and Grey Flanger are good starting points for both of those effects. Liquifier Chorus is a good one as well.

Tried the Bogner Red and it is good stuff.

I had to put a wifi extender right underneath the table I have the stadium on to get the app to connect. And even with that the app/Stadium periodically disconnect from each other. Major PITA (caps on purpose) because my physical setup makes using the PC editor much more practical most of the time. Makes me think something is screwed up on my unit, which of course I'm not happy about. Hopefully in future updates they'll fix it so I can run the editor over USB like I always did with the LT.

I've played around with a couple of the presets. I've found them to be pretty usable, although I do like to make little tweaks for them to slide right into what I prefer. I'll probably say more later or tomorrow but so far I'm impressed with the Agoura amps. I got stuck on the 4th preset with the BritMegaBass amp. I'm not even sure if it's an Agoura model or not but I'm digging it

 

[Mongillo19]

I had to put a wifi extender right underneath the table I have the stadium on to get the app to connect. And even with that the app/Stadium periodically disconnect from each other. Major PITA (caps on purpose) because my physical setup makes using the PC editor much more practical most of the time. Makes me think something is screwed up on my unit, which of course I'm not happy about. Hopefully in future updates they'll fix it so I can run the editor over USB like I always did with the LT.

I've played around with a couple of the presets. I've found them to be pretty usable, although I do like to make little tweaks for them to slide right into what I prefer. I'll probably say more later or tomorrow but so far I'm impressed with the Agoura amps. I got stuck on the 4th preset with the BritMegaBass amp. I'm not even sure if it's an Agoura model or not but I'm digging it

That's a bummer. Maybe try with a phone hotspot if you have one? Just to ensure it isn't something with your Internet. For example, there were common issues with certain Wi-Fi names having problems connecting to the QC (I believe)

 

[GTR37]

I had to put a wifi extender right underneath the table I have the stadium on to get the app to connect. And even with that the app/Stadium periodically disconnect from each other. Major PITA (caps on purpose) because my physical setup makes using the PC editor much more practical most of the time. Makes me think something is screwed up on my unit, which of course I'm not happy about. Hopefully in future updates they'll fix it so I can run the editor over USB like I always did with the LT.

I've played around with a couple of the presets. I've found them to be pretty usable, although I do like to make little tweaks for them to slide right into what I prefer. I'll probably say more later or tomorrow but so far I'm impressed with the Agoura amps. I got stuck on the 4th preset with the BritMegaBass amp. I'm not even sure if it's an Agoura model or not but I'm digging it

that's an Agoura the Brit Bass

 

[Digital Igloo]

I still wonder if they went with a new footswitch design because having to send off my stomp 2-3 times to get it fixed was not fun.

It's not an all-new footswitch design from scratch, but improvements were made.

Same switch or different ones? I don’t think overall that component has an unusually high failure rate.

Given how many boxes we've sold (and how many switches those boxes have), the failure rate is exceedingly low. We have repair data on select other brands and are not overly concerned. Still, Mechanical occasionally digs in and tweaks things to improve reliability further.

 

[GTR37]

So for the benefit of everyone else, Ed and I were just discussing this. We have quite different takes on it.

At first the two amps sound quite comparable. But when I listen closely, I detect a mid-range difference between the two, and the old model has something going on that I'm not digging, whereas Agoura seems a bit more clearer - has a more 'Fractal'-esque clarity to it.

The legacy has a kind of cocked wah thing going on
.
13:15 ... the chugs on the new one... the fundamental note really cuts through a LOT more than the legacy one to my ears.

13:51 is a good moment to hear it too. Where he jumps from new to old, and all of a sudden there's a fogginess that gets added when he goes back to the old.

It's almost like there's a white noise generator mixed into the front of the amp, creating all this unrelated shit.

My vote goes to Agoura - but I'd probably have matched the gains a bit better. The newer one seemed undergained to me versus the legacy.

I almost feel like people have been listening to the Helix models so long , that its a bit of a shock and maybe our ears need time to adjust to something new and unfamiliar.

It almost reminds me of what happens after the Fractal updates frequently . How many time do I read OMG FAS this firmware really screwed up my presets and my tone sounds like crap now , 90% of those posts are usually followed up with the OP reporting back in a couple of days after they tweaked , saying WOW my tone is so much better now , it clearer and punchier .

I kind of Feel like that a bit of what going on here , DI himself even said it , it does not sound like a line6.

I think its way too early to say Agoura is not as good or is a let down until more people really have had a chance to dial in things to there liking , the only thing so far that seems to be fact is that it is different and as such likely requires time to get the best out of it and maybe things that worked on the previous HX just like a prior fractal firmware , don't work the same way here

 

[EOengineer]

I had ~30 mins with Stadium tonight and honestly it's impressive. The hardware is BEAUTIFUL. It's sleek and robust, tour worthy for sure.

I'm going to focus on initial impressions of Agoura here because its the feature I most care about. No disrespect meant to the other new features.

SO...

I played the Agoura SLO, BFDR, SFPR, Plexi, 800, SuperBass, Tweed Champ, Tweed Bassman, and the Revs. You'll get it once you play through it. We can argue about tones all day, agoura's feel and playing experience is light years ahead of Hx. There is more weight and solidity under the fingers. It's like you can feel the transformers. It feels solid like when I track my 2204 through the Suhr RL and a good IR.

There is more dynamic content, more and finer gradients to those dynamics, and it just feels like playing a nice piece of tube gear. I particularly enjoyed the volume knob cleanup on the marshalls and fenders. There are really pleasing overtones and lots of natural sustain, even when not using tons of gain. Straight up the SuperBass model might be the best feeling digital amp model I've ever played. Kudos to the L6 guys.

For the high gain folka, I only checked out the Revs...I'm sorry. There are definitely cool sounds in there but I was playing a telecaster with single coils. Im going to sweep back later with a LP with humbuckers and see what I can get out of the EVH and Bogner amps. I'll probably hit the Marshalls again too. This was a very exciting preview though.

In short - the feeling of playing through agoura is the win here...for me. This thing stays and I'm pumped for some eventual Mesa goodness.

 

[EOengineer]

so far I'm impressed with the Agoura amps. I got stuck on the 4th preset with the BritMegaBass amp.

Same. I spent A WHILE in that preset with some minor tweaks. Crazy good.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I almost feel like people have been listening to the Helix models so long , that its a bit of a shock and maybe our ears need time to adjust to something new and unfamiliar.

It almost reminds me of what happens after the Fractal updates frequently . How many time do I read OMG FAS this firmware really screwed up my presets and my tone sounds like crap now , 90% of those posts are usually followed up with the OP reporting back in a couple of days after they tweaked , saying WOW my tone is so much better now , it clearer and punchier .

I kind of Feel like that a bit of what going on here , DI himself even said it , it does not sound like a line6.

I think its way too early to say Agoura is not as good or is a let down until more people really have had a chance to dial in things to there liking , the only thing so far that seems to be fact is that it is different and as such likely requires time to get the best out of it and maybe things that worked on the previous HX just like a prior fractal firmware , don't work the same way here

The best proof will be hearing if it’s closer to the real amps than before. The previous Helix EVH and XTC models weren’t that old and presumably worked on at a similar time to the Agoura models. The old Revv also probably took advantage of tech that was more advanced than early Helix modelling. If the new models sound closer to the real amps, and with less work to get there, then I’m all in. Given the old models weren’t far off, or modelled too long ago, I’m a bit confused why it’s so different here.

It feels to me a lot of people have some confirmation bias that new must be better/more accurate, and the differences, whether positive or negative are because of realism.

Most Fractal updates these days are very subtle by comparison, unless a big or error has been found or a default value has been changed.

 

[Digital Igloo]

I kind of Feel like that a bit of what going on here , DI himself even said it, it does not sound like a line6.

95% of people with "it doesn't sound any better" or "it's marginally better" comments are basing everything on a @#$%§ YouTube video. YouTube videos will never EVER convey feel or responsiveness; I'd argue it does an awfully lousy job of conveying sound as well, what with compression algorithms and all the unknowns like the audio interface it's plugged into (most YouTubers are too lazy to connect via USB; they just plug 'em into whatever's convenient), gain staging, mic pres, op amps, user error, etc.

I'll say it again: Anyone who can't tell the difference between Helix Floor and Stadium running Agoura from the units themselves (not a YouTube video) might as well play a B£#®!n&£® V-Amp.

 

[eggpl@nt]

Behringturd V-Amp.

It's weird to see you type that out instead of your usual array of symbols.

Edit: Edited lol

 

[Digital Igloo]

It's weird to see you type that out instead of your usual array of symbols.

Edit: Edited lol

I didn't even realize there was a filter until now. Haahaaaa! Awesome. Uli is so damn litigious I just edit the name out of habit.

 

[Stone]

Alls i can say is if it sounds good to you then it is good, I think most modelers today can sound amazing depending on how they are dialed in, and your monitor /frfr/cab will make a huge difference, I think today it comes down to what brand works best for you in terms of workflow or ease of use, for some it will be Helix, others Fractal others QC for others it might be Kemper or ToneX its all on the individual.

 

[Orvillain]

I'm interested in:

- Comparisons against the real amps
- Comparisons against Axe FX III
- Comparisons against an actual Helix Floor/Rack/LT unit - or even Helix Native

I'm not really that convinced that comparing legacy models on the Stadium to Agoura, is comparing like for like. I don't believe for one second that using a legacy model on Stadium is the same sound as using the model on an actual previous gen Helix unit. The hardware differences will make a difference, and who knows what actual differences there are in the underlying tech engine that result in subtle differences.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

YouTube videos will never EVER convey feel or responsiveness; I'd argue it does an awfully lousy job of conveying sound as well, what with compression algorithms and all the unknowns like the audio interface it's plugged into (most YouTubers are too lazy to connect via USB; they just plug 'em in to whatever they have), gain staging, mic pres, op amps, user error, etc.

Agree regarding feel, but feel only exists for a fleeting moment solely for the person playing the device, and is based on all kinds of factors. A recorded tone exists forever and can be heard by anyone at any opportunity. Both are valid experiences, one doesn’t negate the other. Feel can’t ever be judged on any recording - be it a 192kHz 32 bit wav file, or mp3, tape or vinyl or wax cylinder. So judging that will always depend on actually playing a unit, as well as the playback system etc. same goes for any real amp too. I wouldn’t comment about feel on a gear video in the same way that I wouldn’t comment on the taste by watching a cooking video.

YouTube compression affects everything on YouTube. It’s far from ideal, but if it was so catastrophically bad, every great tone would sound terrible on YouTube. There’s loads of good tones on YouTube, of all kinds of gear, and honestly, even if my tones change a bit after uploading, I think they’re represented well enough. I’d even argue that the biggest problem with YouTube is that so many users are using phones/laptops/tv’s/bad speakers to listen.

People by and large have accepted Spotify and Apple Music which sounded pretty dreadful until recently, when comparing to the source material. It may change and degrade things a bit but not so much that it’s totally beyond recognition. For the majority, unfortunately, it’s good enough. It would be better if YouTube didn’t affect the sound quality at all, but it’s more than adequate for conveying guitar tones. Certainly much better than what radio stations do to music….

Anyway, looking forward to hearing more and being won over, I’m rooting for Line 6. HX Stomp and Native won me back as a Line 6 user and I’ve sung its praises for years. I’m still hopeful some audio examples (particularly of amp comparisons like we’ve had years of for Helix)will come along that make me eat my words. Helix Stadium is an overwhelmingly awesome achievement and it accomplishes so much cool stuff. Regardless of my views on one aspect of it, it does so much well that I don’t want to overlook all the killer stuff I’m totally in awe of.

 

[Mooselake]

That's a bummer. Maybe try with a phone hotspot if you have one? Just to ensure it isn't something with your Internet. For example, there were common issues with certain Wi-Fi names having problems connecting to the QC (I believe)

It seems to be hanging in there okay with the extender close to it. The connection to the editor spontaneously went down twice in about an hour of using it, and it connected right back up but it seems you have to do that manually--they don't seem to try to reconnect themselves.