My opinion is that if it’s not a jump up to at least Tonex accuracy Kemper is going to have a hard time competing. There will be little reason for existing users to buy MK2 and not much to lure new buyers away from competitors products as more people switch to digital rigs.
"hard time competing" with what?
I absolutely agree there will be little reason for existing users to buy MK2. Depending on the type of user, Kemper does have considerable advantages in live gigging setups over all current capture devices IMO. Unfortunately for Kemper, this is a small fraction of the overall market.
If you were entering the market to buy a capturing device in 2025 I would assume one of your top concerns would be the accuracy of its main feature. As you said there are plenty of options doing this better than Kemper. You think this is a wise business strategy? Or one that will be successful long term?
Here's my criteria for a hardware unit in 2025:
- Does it sound great?
- Do I have to tweak extensively to get a good sound?
- Is it relatively easy or even fun to use?
- Is there a proper suite of good sounding effects?
- Is it powerful enough to run lots of effects at once?
- Is the latency acceptable?
- Does it have a good number of ins and outs?
- Is there a good computer editor?
- Does it have USB audio?
- What is the price?
- Does the company have a good track record of development and support?
Null tests might cover one of those points, but not even close to all of them.
All of this and add:
- Spill-over
- Physically robust for gigging
- Easy to create a specific sound found in a song (to elaborate on your "get a good sound" line item).
- Tone stability between firmware updates.
- Daylight readable foot controller
- Ergonomic foot controller
- Rack and foot controller version for live setup with only a single Ethercon cable going out to the performers stage position.
Given this .... I would suggest that their only possible and plausible target is to at least equal if not surpass NAM and Tonex.
They do have an added bonus on their side in that their existing staple of Gain/EQ Modeled stacks for LP'ing - although not 1:1 - are exceptionally Amp like when adjusting the controls on a LP - that was certainly my direct experience running my Stage for 6 months with only well made LP's.
So the "dream" / "absolute best case scenario" for the MK2 is that it will deliver NAM/Tonex levels of accuracy combined with their existing LP process ... so you can adjust the Profile controls and have them respond "like" a real Amp - as opposed to how shit NAM and Tonex captures become once you start to tweak the generic gain/eq controls in them.
Good summary. I agree with your assessment. It seems like business suicide for Kemper to come out with such a BOLD statement, then fail to deliver. At a minimum, I would expect them to be near NAM/Tonex level .... and I believe that this will make a TON of difference to some people .... and only a little difference to others. Still, from a marketing perspective, it would be a huge step up for Kemper.
@BenIfin - agreed. My hope is that the new profiling reaches the same levels as Tonex/NAM. Then you're getting higher fidelity models alongside all the Kemper effects which are pretty solid. The UI is still pretty dated but at least the new versions aren't nearly as laggy and buggy.
I still don't really get the Mk2 release though. The improvements they made are all great. But even if they weren't planning to overhaul the UX, why not at least bring the QOL features like WiFi or Bluetooth to other models?
I am guessing that they RE-USED the existing main boards for the rack, head, and stage. The only thing that they changed was the DIMM board holding the application processor.... and the paint job
.
To add to your statement, why on EARTH didn't they move to a sweeter looking foot controller for the foot controller and stage models? Since the app board was actually changed, it should have been easy to create a new and shiny cool looking foot controller with OLED scribble strips.
Yes, giving the user control of the refine process is a huge responsibility for the user. And makes it extremely difficult to be exact each time.
My post is mostly for those that are reading the thread. To give them context to all of the back and forth.
You had mentioned some amps were seemingly more difficult for the Kemper to profile than others. This is why I asked which was the more difficult so I could present the Kempers ability in this situation. The MK1 Kemper at this point.
Now readers can read all the words here and then listen to the clip to see how the words go along with what they hear.
I have no doubt MK 2 will be more accurate but I also think the MK 1 can sound real.
There is no inherent cocked wah or whatnot. That sound does exist in the music realm, especially in 80s tones. I personally really disliked it but it has it's place.
.... and I note that the loudest voices that are shouting about how important accuracy is are the same voices that are refusing to say which clip the prefer. God forbid a Kemper hater actually PICKED KEMPER out of those clips eh?
The clip is the perfect vehicle to make the point very clear to anyone reading this. The idea that Kemper is such crap because it doesn't null as good as NAM is pretty silly.
Come on guys. Pick your favorite. I double dog dare you. Or do you lack the courage of your conviction?
This is what doesnt give me much hope for MK2 profiling being much better. They didn't even do basic upgrades to the units to unify the line.
-The player and stage have true impedance and the head and rack don't.
-Bluetooth streaming (which is handy as hell) is only in the Player.
-Why not move to USB-C (spare me the BS about how type B Is "more rugged" its not)
Oh, I think there are plenty of ways they could greatly improve profiling .... especially if they offload the heavy work to the PC. Your other questions are pretty valid though. Why not?
FWIW, I am in the camp that type B is more rugged. C is just smaller which is why it is more popular. It is also able to power things which is very important for lots of devices (but not Kemper).
Honestly I prefer USB-B over USB-C for these things because I'm lazy and like to use the nice long cables I already have
I can see smaller desktop units being better with USB-C especially if they're bus powered. And obviously anything that needs to be charged should be USB-C.
Agree.
Most people don't realize that there is one real USP with Kemper, that no other platform has: the combination of their proprietary Kone speaker and in the Profiler the models of most common guitar speakers matched to that Kone (called Imprints).
If you run a powered Kemper or an unpowered one through a power amp to a Kone cab and set your preferred Imprint (V30, Greenback, ...) you get it very damn close to actual amp in the room feel, at any volume. The Imprint gives you a quick change of tone and you can adjust directivity of the powered Kone signal. It really works and is the one thing that makes it in my ears so superior to any digital solution out there.
This is one of quite a few that are important to me, but I agree that many things you don't see on a null test are important to a great many people.
