Kemper Profiler MK 2

[paisleywookiee]

The version I tried did actually pop up a slider on screen when adjusting a param, so I thought that was a novel solution.

Afaik the Fender TMP offers this sort of feature as well.

IMO, the Fender UI sucks balls, compared to *gulp* the QC or even Headrush.

 

[Jarick]

I hate adjusting anything on a touch screen other than a toggle. Sliders, knobs, it all sucks. You need some kind of knobs. That's one of the big issues I had with the Headrush whenever I had one. I never had the big unit, just the smaller Gigboard and MX5. I think they had one parameter knob maybe. Super clunky to adjust but I HATE using the touch screen there.

Of course the touch screen makes general navigation and especially typing way easier. So best case scenario is a touch screen AND knobs.



When it comes to the Kemper Player, I think when fully set up it can be just fine but it would be nice to be able to fully edit on the device. That's of course something very different. It would be way better IMO with a small screen and to repurpose amp knobs to be multi control just like the Stage. But nobody ever makes a perfect digital unit so everything's a compromise.

I'm still trying to sort out my workflow, and it comes down to finding the right profiles. I just haven't played much guitar the last few weeks. I have a couple profiles I really like, but I need to set up the bank of profiles with the effects I want. Then 99% of the time I can just get quick access to what I want right on the unit without needing a screen or computer.

 

[OneEng]

Really? I have quite a few devices that rely on apps that are more than 5 years old.

In any case, if you look at Kemper Player, Tonex, etc. relying on an external editor app is the direction things are going.

I made the jump from an analog mixer to an X32 Rack with the Rack first came out (about 2013). Going without a physical interface was scary, but now I can't imagine doing it any other way.

I think the biggest problem going display less (or "headless") is the people momentum associated with physical controls and interfaces on existing pedals..... in other words, people don't like change.

The Kemper has one of the most complete MIDI implementations. It still has gaps, but it's not hard to create whatever app or hardware you want to control it and view status.

Yes, but do they include sending text from the GUI out to a remote device? They certainly do for the Kemper FC, but that is proprietary Ethernet.

In general though, I agree with you. This is completely plausible.

Yeah but it sounds like grilled dick sandwiches.

No it doesn't. That is a crazy statement in any context IME.

For those mentioning the need for physical knobs, there is some merit in this.... but it really depends on your use case.

For ME, I setup for a gig using a PC editor and automating my setlist with MIDI commands. All the sounds I will use for a song are hammered out at home with the editor and saved on the device.

At a gig, settings are called up automatically when the set manager software moves to the next song. In-song changes are performed with the Kemper FC (and an external "volume" foot controller if needed for real time morphing).

Truth be known, in my use model, there is no need for a device Ui at all.

For those that work with a pedal on a desk or rely on seeing what patch they are on while standing up, it is convenient to have an on device display. I have a tablet mounted on my mic stand, but for jam sessions with friends, I might not have. In these situations, I need to see the LCD on the FC. I still only use it for selecting a patch, not for editing a tone in real time. I have enough sounds that work for lots of songs in general (more than enough to sound impressive in a jam).

For the low cost, small devices, I can totally see the entire industry moving toward a headless design. A phone or tablet interface would be MUCH more comprehensive. Especially for something as complex as Kemper. Way better to edit on a tablet than anything you could fit on the Player.

 

[Tanax]

There’s nothing worse than “turning” a knob on a touch screen. I know I seem to be in the minority, but I actually love sliders (like Line 6) in this setting. Just a quick tap wherever I want to set it and done. No dragging, no turning, just a tap.

To be honest, I feel the same way about computer editors as well because a mouse ain't a knob, so it has the same issue as a touch screen does. The "motion" doesn't really match the things you're interacting with on the screen. It needs to twist.

 

[quadgear]

Yes, but do they include sending text from the GUI out to a remote device? They certainly do for the Kemper FC, but that is proprietary Ethernet.

Yes, but it's complex and requires a pretty smart, custom controller like Midi Captain/PySwitch. You can get the value and also get the text that Kemper would display.

And then there's the question of if you can have two devices attached to the Kemper at the same time which use this complex midi.

There are a few things on the FC which is not documented/discovered for Kemper Midi (e.g., Looper status/time position).

 

[ChordInversion]

Do you think it is possible that in the future, all guitar devices will rely on a remote screen?

All? IMO, there's little to no chance of that. I personally would go back to amps and analog pedals if all modelers and the like relied on iOS or Android devices.

It's tempting to think that any given choice will become universal (you see this in the discussions about NAM). That's an understandably appealing prospect for people who like a particular design choice. But it's much more likely that a diversity hardware and software design choices and feature sets will exist, catering to different preferences.

I'll tolerate a touch screen that I don't have to use much (which is more than I thought I could say a year or so ago). I'm on board with computer-based deep-dive sound editors for pedals or modelers. But count me as being on team knobs.

 

[OneEng]

All? IMO, there's little to no chance of that. I personally would go back to amps and analog pedals if all modelers and the like relied on iOS or Android devices.

It's tempting to think that any given choice will become universal (you see this in the discussions about NAM). That's an understandably appealing prospect for people who like a particular design choice. But it's much more likely that a diversity hardware and software design choices and feature sets will exist, catering to different preferences.

I'll tolerate a touch screen that I don't have to use much (which is more than I thought I could say a year or so ago). I'm on board with computer-based deep-dive sound editors for pedals or modelers. But count me as being on team knobs.

I'm likely in the "Hybrid" approach club myself.

My 2016 Honda Accord went way overboard with LCD touchscreens and almost no knobs at all (not even for volume!). I decidedly did not like that (and they added more knobs in later models).

My X32 Rack mixer has a GUI and knobs/buttons to control it, but it is pretty clunky to do so. The PC editor and tablet/phone interfaces are very mature and it works quite well.

For a digital amp, it just seems like the complexity justifies more control than can afford to be put on small devices. The Kemper Player is a great example IMO. There are just so many things that need to be controlled that the interface doesn't fit on the device.

The FM3 and the HX stomp are good examples as well.

The Kemper's Ui/Ux is already considered "clunky" even with all its knobs. It was clunky in 2013 when I bought it!

So, for me, this comes down to 4 different use cases:

1) Gig setup, song tones, and real time modification control setup (done with a full editor on a PC)
2) Gig control (done with either a foot controller or MIDI or a combination of these two
3) Just messing around at home (done with a full editor on a PC)
4) Jam session (??)

So it's the last one where things get harry. Bending over and making adjustments to a small pedal with menu diving is tough. On our old tube amps, we would have been limited (mostly) to a little eq (my VHT UL had a 6 band master eq and a 3 band eq on each channel (clean and drive channels) along with a bunch of push buttons and of course .... gain for the drive channel.

A simple UI could be easily made today to do this wirelessly with a CME WiDi device and a phone. The channel switching could be done by a set manager for each song, and a midi pedal could do real time changes (like boost, patch change) in the middle of the song.

Honestly, gigging with my tube amp rigs was limited. I could only have 2 main sounds, then everything else was on the pedal board. There was certainly nothing simple about most pedal boards either.

My point is, that maybe we old dogs will have to learn some new tricks for the future. It is a BETTER future in my book. Smaller, less expensive, and MUCH more comprehensive tone control with capabilities I couldn't even imagine 20 years ago.

So, I now need a tablet/phone for control and monitoring at a show. I do that anyway and see lots of other bands that do the same. Maybe this is the equivalent of cell phones vs home wall mounted phones of the past?

 

[laxu]

I'm likely in the "Hybrid" approach club myself.

My 2016 Honda Accord went way overboard with LCD touchscreens and almost no knobs at all (not even for volume!). I decidedly did not like that (and they added more knobs in later models).

My X32 Rack mixer has a GUI and knobs/buttons to control it, but it is pretty clunky to do so. The PC editor and tablet/phone interfaces are very mature and it works quite well.

For a digital amp, it just seems like the complexity justifies more control than can afford to be put on small devices. The Kemper Player is a great example IMO. There are just so many things that need to be controlled that the interface doesn't fit on the device.

The FM3 and the HX stomp are good examples as well.

The Kemper's Ui/Ux is already considered "clunky" even with all its knobs. It was clunky in 2013 when I bought it!

So, for me, this comes down to 4 different use cases:

1) Gig setup, song tones, and real time modification control setup (done with a full editor on a PC)
2) Gig control (done with either a foot controller or MIDI or a combination of these two
3) Just messing around at home (done with a full editor on a PC)
4) Jam session (??)

So it's the last one where things get harry. Bending over and making adjustments to a small pedal with menu diving is tough. On our old tube amps, we would have been limited (mostly) to a little eq (my VHT UL had a 6 band master eq and a 3 band eq on each channel (clean and drive channels) along with a bunch of push buttons and of course .... gain for the drive channel.

A simple UI could be easily made today to do this wirelessly with a CME WiDi device and a phone. The channel switching could be done by a set manager for each song, and a midi pedal could do real time changes (like boost, patch change) in the middle of the song.

Honestly, gigging with my tube amp rigs was limited. I could only have 2 main sounds, then everything else was on the pedal board. There was certainly nothing simple about most pedal boards either.

My point is, that maybe we old dogs will have to learn some new tricks for the future. It is a BETTER future in my book. Smaller, less expensive, and MUCH more comprehensive tone control with capabilities I couldn't even imagine 20 years ago.

So, I now need a tablet/phone for control and monitoring at a show. I do that anyway and see lots of other bands that do the same. Maybe this is the equivalent of cell phones vs home wall mounted phones of the past?

To me "hybrid" approaches are always the way to go.

If I could, I'd rather control even the computer editor with a MIDI knob controller. There's nothing as "un-rock n' roll" as tweaking settings with a freakin' mouse or touchscreen. But nothing supports this sort of hybrid solution. You can't use e.g Axe-Edit with a MIDI knob controller automatically mapped to params in the current block on screen.

So the best case scenario is touchscreen + knobs.

 

[ChordInversion]

I'm likely in the "Hybrid" approach club myself.

My 2016 Honda Accord went way overboard with LCD touchscreens and almost no knobs at all (not even for volume!). I decidedly did not like that (and they added more knobs in later models).

My X32 Rack mixer has a GUI and knobs/buttons to control it, but it is pretty clunky to do so. The PC editor and tablet/phone interfaces are very mature and it works quite well.

For a digital amp, it just seems like the complexity justifies more control than can afford to be put on small devices. The Kemper Player is a great example IMO. There are just so many things that need to be controlled that the interface doesn't fit on the device.

The FM3 and the HX stomp are good examples as well.

The Kemper's Ui/Ux is already considered "clunky" even with all its knobs. It was clunky in 2013 when I bought it!

So, for me, this comes down to 4 different use cases:

1) Gig setup, song tones, and real time modification control setup (done with a full editor on a PC)
2) Gig control (done with either a foot controller or MIDI or a combination of these two
3) Just messing around at home (done with a full editor on a PC)
4) Jam session (??)

So it's the last one where things get harry. Bending over and making adjustments to a small pedal with menu diving is tough. On our old tube amps, we would have been limited (mostly) to a little eq (my VHT UL had a 6 band master eq and a 3 band eq on each channel (clean and drive channels) along with a bunch of push buttons and of course .... gain for the drive channel.

A simple UI could be easily made today to do this wirelessly with a CME WiDi device and a phone. The channel switching could be done by a set manager for each song, and a midi pedal could do real time changes (like boost, patch change) in the middle of the song.

Honestly, gigging with my tube amp rigs was limited. I could only have 2 main sounds, then everything else was on the pedal board. There was certainly nothing simple about most pedal boards either.

My point is, that maybe we old dogs will have to learn some new tricks for the future. It is a BETTER future in my book. Smaller, less expensive, and MUCH more comprehensive tone control with capabilities I couldn't even imagine 20 years ago.

So, I now need a tablet/phone for control and monitoring at a show. I do that anyway and see lots of other bands that do the same. Maybe this is the equivalent of cell phones vs home wall mounted phones of the past?

You explained what works for you, and I believe you completely. My entire 31 year career has been in technology, from research institutions to big tech. I also know players in their 20s who feel the way I do. This isn't a matter of fear of change or absolute superiority. It's a matter of preference of playing experience.

Which is why I think folks like you will get what you want, and folks like me will be able to keep what we like. My only objection was to your use of the term "all." All devices will not be for you. All devices will not be for me. As it is now, I'm sure. There will be healthy differentiation in the market, as there usually is when the market itself is healthy.

 

[Jarick]

I'm likely in the "Hybrid" approach club myself.

My 2016 Honda Accord went way overboard with LCD touchscreens and almost no knobs at all (not even for volume!). I decidedly did not like that (and they added more knobs in later models).

My X32 Rack mixer has a GUI and knobs/buttons to control it, but it is pretty clunky to do so. The PC editor and tablet/phone interfaces are very mature and it works quite well.

For a digital amp, it just seems like the complexity justifies more control than can afford to be put on small devices. The Kemper Player is a great example IMO. There are just so many things that need to be controlled that the interface doesn't fit on the device.

The FM3 and the HX stomp are good examples as well.

The Kemper's Ui/Ux is already considered "clunky" even with all its knobs. It was clunky in 2013 when I bought it!

So, for me, this comes down to 4 different use cases:

1) Gig setup, song tones, and real time modification control setup (done with a full editor on a PC)
2) Gig control (done with either a foot controller or MIDI or a combination of these two
3) Just messing around at home (done with a full editor on a PC)
4) Jam session (??)

So it's the last one where things get harry. Bending over and making adjustments to a small pedal with menu diving is tough. On our old tube amps, we would have been limited (mostly) to a little eq (my VHT UL had a 6 band master eq and a 3 band eq on each channel (clean and drive channels) along with a bunch of push buttons and of course .... gain for the drive channel.

A simple UI could be easily made today to do this wirelessly with a CME WiDi device and a phone. The channel switching could be done by a set manager for each song, and a midi pedal could do real time changes (like boost, patch change) in the middle of the song.

Honestly, gigging with my tube amp rigs was limited. I could only have 2 main sounds, then everything else was on the pedal board. There was certainly nothing simple about most pedal boards either.

My point is, that maybe we old dogs will have to learn some new tricks for the future. It is a BETTER future in my book. Smaller, less expensive, and MUCH more comprehensive tone control with capabilities I couldn't even imagine 20 years ago.

So, I now need a tablet/phone for control and monitoring at a show. I do that anyway and see lots of other bands that do the same. Maybe this is the equivalent of cell phones vs home wall mounted phones of the past?

A bit off topic but I had a 2016 Honda CR-V and then a 2017 CR-V that had an overhauled touch screen. I liked the first one okay but the second one had Apple CarPlay and that's been awesome. Just made the last payment on it!

Anyways, for live use I don't think I'd use the Kemper Player. It seems really good for living on a desk or a small board where it's hooked up to a computer. But there's just not enough controls and feedback for all the functionality it has. You'd really want to bump up to the Stage or get into a hybrid rig with pedals, and if you go the latter then it kind of makes more sense to go Tonex at half the cost.

Side note, I honestly think it's bullshit they keep closing and locking threads on the official forum asking for the lock function to be added to the Player saying they can't physically do it. They added a lot of functionality to the Player after the release that wasn't previously announced. There's adjustments in the Player you can only make through rig manager (such as global cabinet smoothing or whatever it's called).

 

[OneEng]

A bit off topic but I had a 2016 Honda CR-V and then a 2017 CR-V that had an overhauled touch screen. I liked the first one okay but the second one had Apple CarPlay and that's been awesome. Just made the last payment on it!

Anyways, for live use I don't think I'd use the Kemper Player. It seems really good for living on a desk or a small board where it's hooked up to a computer. But there's just not enough controls and feedback for all the functionality it has. You'd really want to bump up to the Stage or get into a hybrid rig with pedals, and if you go the latter then it kind of makes more sense to go Tonex at half the cost.

Side note, I honestly think it's bullshit they keep closing and locking threads on the official forum asking for the lock function to be added to the Player saying they can't physically do it. They added a lot of functionality to the Player after the release that wasn't previously announced. There's adjustments in the Player you can only make through rig manager (such as global cabinet smoothing or whatever it's called).

I wouldn't have used the Kemper Player before I automated with Band Helper and CME WiDi wireless MIDI adapter. I think I could get along with just the 3 buttons which would give 3 different tones in a single song (which is all I have needed for any song we have ever done .... so far).

I do agree, that without the setlist automation, this wouldn't work. This is why I bought the rack and foot controller. I really needed the LCD and all the buttons to control everything I needed for a show. Now most of that is being done with a piece of software.

 

[Jarick]

I wouldn't have used the Kemper Player before I automated with Band Helper and CME WiDi wireless MIDI adapter. I think I could get along with just the 3 buttons which would give 3 different tones in a single song (which is all I have needed for any song we have ever done .... so far).

I do agree, that without the setlist automation, this wouldn't work. This is why I bought the rack and foot controller. I really needed the LCD and all the buttons to control everything I needed for a show. Now most of that is being done with a piece of software.

Yep, agreed! KPP with automation is super cool, by itself you'd need to know your set and your tones inside and out.