E-drums: could they be a common thing for small bands gigs?

[Sascha Franck]

This is 100% false.

You don't seem to have much of an idea of live sound.

 

[Orvillain]

You don't seem to have much of an idea of live sound.

Yes I do.

Acting like microphones can't pickup the sympathetic resonances, and the modal shifting across a cymbal or drum skin, is just ... well frankly, it is just anti-reality.

You've only got to put some overheads up and play a rolling 16th note pattern on a ride cymbal, and then compare it to the same kind of signal that an e-kit or drum library puts out, to know that there's actually a huge difference between the two, and that this would be thoroughly observable in a live sound context.

I've spent 18 years working with e-kits, drum samples, and being involved in measuring, analysing, recording, editing, and producing products that revolve around exactly this kind of phenomenon. I 100% know what I am talking about, and there is a reason that BFD was so famed and appreciated for its "real" and "raw" character; versus some of the competition who do not have as strong a reputation for realism - again, just being frank about it. But that's the reality.

(BFD failing hard has nothing to do with its sound engine btw, and everything to do with 10+ years of piss poor middle-management!)

 

[Sascha Franck]

Yes I do.

Clearly not.

I've spent 18 years working with e-kits, drum samples, and being involved in measuring, analysing, recording, editing, and producing products that revolve around exactly this kind of phenomenon.

Completely irrelevant for live. Which my comment was about. But you seem to blissfully ignore that.

But let's just keep it at that. You're the big pumpkin and nobody else knows anything.
It's annoying, really.

 

[Orvillain]

Clearly not.

Wrong.

Completely irrelevant for live.

Wrong.

Which my comment was about. But you seem to blissfully ignore that.

Wrong.

 

[OneEng]

Serious question: how do you explain all the amazing-sounding shows so many of us have seen over the past few decades, with real amps, real drums, etc?

If you are in a venue large enough (or outdoors), then nearly any drummer and band can be made to sound great.

In smaller venues with smaller stages where the drums must be close to vocal mics, it will only sound good if the drummer keeps his volume under control, otherwise the cymbals and snare will drown out the vocals and the FOH will be a mess.

I have heard some fantastic performances, MOST of them were done with acoustic drums..... but of the really horrible performances I have seen (horrible due to a very bad mix) the mix was ruined by loud cymbals, snare, and sometimes tube amps.

You don't seem to have much of an idea of live sound.

None at all. Doesn't seem to have a clue what goes into making a good FOH mix.

While all these subtle sonic things are interesting, the idea that anyone could hear such things in a mix in a club is just silly IMO.

I will give it to @Orvillain, he is consistent as he also believes that he could hear the difference between a Kemper, Axe III Fx, and a real tube amp in a live setting because of subtle nuances.

My personal belief is that you need a good clean sound stage first without so much mic blead as to doom the mix. You also need good talent as no amount of gear is going to make a crappy musician suddenly sound good (especially the vocals).

Even a fantastically talented band will sound bad if the mix is crap though. I have seen this many times and it is heart wrenching since you can tell the musicians are very talented. Such a shame that their mix is such crap that the audience can't hear just how good they are.

 

[paisleywookiee]

If you are in a venue large enough (or outdoors), then nearly any drummer and band can be made to sound great.

In smaller venues with smaller stages where the drums must be close to vocal mics, it will only sound good if the drummer keeps his volume under control, otherwise the cymbals and snare will drown out the vocals and the FOH will be a mess.

I have heard some fantastic performances, MOST of them were done with acoustic drums..... but of the really horrible performances I have seen (horrible due to a very bad mix) the mix was ruined by loud cymbals, snare, and sometimes tube amps.

Man, I am lucky! so many good drummers I've had the privilege of seeing over the last 30+ years.