Is Glen right?

[spawnofthesith]

take it up with the guy who made the claim, it certainly wasn't me....The claimant used it as a handwave to dispel the air guitar

Lol, I never said they sounded the same. I was pointing out that using two wooden tables as anchors for strings to prove that "body material can't impact the tone" is moronic at best

 

[pipelineaudio]

So a giant mass of wood gives nearly identical audio results as a small amount of wood? Are you going to claim that the air guitar didn't sound remarkably similar to that same guitar with a wooden body?

If this is the case, could you get "wood tone" by gluing a chopstick to your pickup? Sawdust? A popsickle stick? How much would do you need before you achieve "wood tone"

And unlike ANY other measured phenomenon in existence, adding exponentially more has no readily observable effect?

Before you go on some personal attack diatribe, actually think about the implications of the claims you are making or being forced to defend because of the claims you make

 

[spawnofthesith]

Personal attacks? Check your own posts in here dude


I have nothing to defend. Jim Lils video is fundamentally flawed in claiming to remove wood from the equation to determine where tone comes from when he did no such thing.

You can continue to rage on all you want homie. You should read the book I posted a couple pages ago. Discussing physics with people who have a fundamental misunderstanding of them is futile.

 

[pipelineaudio]

Really, why don't you point out where I got physics wrong? Just one example.

I predict evasion.

 

[DrewJD82]

take it up with the guy who made the claim, it certainly wasn't me....The claimant used it as a handwave to dispel the air guitar

So where do you believe the differences end up taking place or having meaning? Or are you actually saying that all guitars, regardless of the wood or pickups, sound the same?

 

[pipelineaudio]

So where do you believe the differences end up taking place or having meaning? Or are you actually saying that all guitars, regardless of the wood or pickups, sound the same?

I think the pickups, where the pickups are and how far the pickups are from the string have the most effect.

I am certainly not claiming

that all guitars, regardless of the wood or pickups, sound the same?"

And neither did Glenn or Jim Lil

I would say that from all the evidence that has been presented (and I have begged and pleaded many times in this very thread for evidence to the contrary) that if you put the same pickups, with the same electronics, on the same place along the string, at the same distance from the string, The wood or lack of it has not been shown thus far to make any difference to the electrical signal coming out of the guitar's output jack

Now, if anyone actually has the honesty to read this far and actually try and understand instead of just dig in with confirmation bias:

I CARE whether or not my beliefs are true.

I want to believe as many true things and as few false things as I possibly can.

So if someone can show I'm wrong, I am very very very happy about that, because that means I don't have to be wrong anymore. But that's not how this goes when you are dealing with Motivated Reasoning like in this thread

So please, prove me wrong, so I can worry about something that actually matters instead.

 

[Orvillain]

I confess, I thought I posted this already, but seems not. Doh.



Anyway.... same guitar, same distance from the strings, same electronics, etc etc. There are differences in tonality and feel. The OCP Blackbird for instance has way more aggressive transient response than the other two do.

 

[Gearzilla]

I want to believe as many true things and as few false things as I possibly can.

Simple question in that case…

Do you believe or not believe that the pickups and strings can be decoupled from the rest of the guitar when measuring the acoustic results of said guitar in a quantitative manner as a system?

 

[DrewJD82]

I think the pickups, where the pickups are and how far the pickups are from the string have the most effect.

I am certainly not claiming

And neither did Glenn or Jim Lil

I would say that from all the evidence that has been presented (and I have begged and pleaded many times in this very thread for evidence to the contrary) that if you put the same pickups, with the same electronics, on the same place along the string, at the same distance from the string, The wood or lack of it has not been shown thus far to make any difference to the electrical signal coming out of the guitar's output jack

Now, if anyone actually has the honesty to read this far and actually try and understand instead of just dig in with confirmation bias:

I CARE whether or not my beliefs are true.

I want to believe as many true things and as few false things as I possibly can.

So if someone can show I'm wrong, I am very very very happy about that, because that means I don't have to be wrong anymore. But that's not how this goes when you are dealing with Motivated Reasoning like in this thread

So please, prove me wrong, so I can worry about something that actually matters instead.

Gotcha. This entire time I thought it was whether or not changing pickups made a difference or not.

If I get motivated enough, I’d maybe do this for kicks one day. I have two Strats with different body woods and the EMG DG-20 set is all self-contained, so it’d be the exact guts and the exact same heights, I’ll just put the pickguard on an ash body instead of alder. I don’t have the best experiences with playing with pickup changes, as evident by a lot of my posts last week, so I’d have to be highly motivated and I don’t disagree about body woods much, they’re certainly at the lower end of the spectrum for me in terms of what makes the biggest differences and I simply don’t have enough experience playing the same body styles made of different woods to feel I’m qualified to have any additional thought on the matter.

They already cross paths in plenty of areas, if I turn off the boosters on the EMG’s and roll the volume knob down to 6, they don’t sound all that different.

 

[pipelineaudio]

What I really want to know and even though there was a Jim Lil video on it, I still have major questions: Scale length!

I swear up and down all day and night that a similar fender length is clearer with the given harmonic nodes further apart than a similar gibson scale. I haven't been able to conclusively show it myself, despite buying a 29" scale length guitar for some tests, but I swear its there.

 

[Piing]

So if someone can show I'm wrong, I am very very very happy about that, because that means I don't have to be wrong anymore. But that's not how this goes when you are dealing with Motivated Reasoning like in this thread

So please, prove me wrong, so I can worry about something that actually matters instead.

Learn a little bit about electronics and physics, and understand concepts like "resonance peak", "inductance", "DC resistance" or "capacitance".

Science matters

Measuring the Electrical Properties of Guitar Pickups | GuitarNutz 2

This write up owes a lot to a couple very helpful online resources: http://www.buildyourguitar.com/resources/lemme/

guitarnuts2.proboards.com

BuildYourGuitar.com :: The Secrets of Electric Guitar Pickups

www.buildyourguitar.com

Measuring Impedance and Frequency Response of Guitar Pickups | Semantic Scholar

Figure 1: Measurement Circuit There are various types of guitar pickups [3]. The most common type used in an electric guitar is a v riable reluctance sensor. A multi-turn coil of wire is placed around a magnetic core. The core is magnetically biased by a permanent magnet. A steel guitar string...

www.semanticscholar.org

UIUC Physics 406 Electric Guitar Pickup Measurements

courses.physics.illinois.edu

 

[pipelineaudio]

Learn a little bit about electronics and physics, and understand concepts like "resonance peak", "inductance", "DC resistance" or "capacitance".

Science matters

Measuring the Electrical Properties of Guitar Pickups | GuitarNutz 2

This write up owes a lot to a couple very helpful online resources: http://www.buildyourguitar.com/resources/lemme/

guitarnuts2.proboards.com

BuildYourGuitar.com :: The Secrets of Electric Guitar Pickups

www.buildyourguitar.com

Measuring Impedance and Frequency Response of Guitar Pickups | Semantic Scholar

Figure 1: Measurement Circuit There are various types of guitar pickups [3]. The most common type used in an electric guitar is a v riable reluctance sensor. A multi-turn coil of wire is placed around a magnetic core. The core is magnetically biased by a permanent magnet. A steel guitar string...

www.semanticscholar.org

UIUC Physics 406 Electric Guitar Pickup Measurements

courses.physics.illinois.edu

So again you run away when directly asked what I got wrong.

I just want people to notice on this very thread I have continually asked for specifics on what I get wrong, instead I just get insults and insinuations

If I'm wrong, I WANT TO KNOW!

 

[spawnofthesith]

Your very first post in this thread was a slew of insults into the aether that have continued through our. It seems like potentially you’ve kept your actual views intentionally vague. I’m still not sure I follow.

My main comments in the “debate” was that the Lil video was fundamentally flawed in its entire premise, which instill content that it is. In terms of physics, I will adamantly state that by the laws of physics, the construction material of a guitar, whether it is wood or otherwise -must- have some affect on the end product tone.

However, I think we would be in agreement that the pickup is likely the most influential aspect of tone within the guitar itself. But there are numerous factors in a large system that all have an impact to varying degrees.

All things being equal, even the pick the player is using can have a dramatic effect

 

[Gearzilla]

So again you run away when directly asked what I got wrong.

I just want people to notice on this very thread I have continually asked for specifics on what I get wrong, instead I just get insults and insinuations

If I'm wrong, I WANT TO KNOW!

Just answer the question….

 

[Piing]

So again you run away when directly asked what I got wrong.

I just want people to notice on this very thread I have continually asked for specifics on what I get wrong, instead I just get insults and insinuations

If I'm wrong, I WANT TO KNOW!

That is called Science, a methodology that you seem to refuse. They are not insinuations.

Look at the frequency spectrogram of two different pickups. If you still believe that they will sound the same, that would be like a flat-earther refusing evidence that the earth is not flat despite all the scientific methods that prove him wrong without the need to travel.

I am not going to travel the world for you. I've already been there

 

[pipelineaudio]

What was Jim Lill's fundamental flaw in his premise?

Which law of physics states that the construction material of a guitar must have some sort of effect on the electrical output? I could even go and grant that that statement was true and you would still have all the work left to do to show that it would be audible.

I don't think there is any reason to grant that of course, but the point still stands.

 

[Gearzilla]

What was Jim Lill's fundamental flaw in his premise?

Which law of physics states that the construction material of a guitar must have some sort of effect on the electrical output? I could even go and grant that that statement was true and you would still have all the work left to do to show that it would be audible.

I don't think there is any reason to grant that of course, but the point still stands.

So why don’t you tell us more about your affiliation with Glenn Fricker whenever you’re ready.

 

[Piing]

What was Jim Lill's fundamental flaw in his premise?

Which law of physics states that the construction material of a guitar must have some sort of effect on the electrical output? I could even go and grant that that statement was true and you would still have all the work left to do to show that it would be audible.

I don't think there is any reason to grant that of course, but the point still stands.

Did you read the links that I provided where they explain the concepts of "resonance peak", "inductance", "DC resistance" or "capacitance" on electric guitar pickups? Do you understand the effect they have on the electrical output? I guess not, considering the time it took you to reply to rebuke it.

We could provide you with our recordings to prove you that they sound different, as you are requesting, but you could still suspect that they are doctored. So the best thing is that you learn it by yourself, starting with these basic concepts on how a pickup works. There is nothing like self-experience.

Lets be constructive:
What guitars do you have and what amplification are you using? with what settings/FX? What type of sound are you after? If you have more than one different guitar and you perceive them as sounding the same, perhaps it is your system or your settings that are masking the differences

 

[spawnofthesith]

Measurability doesn’t matter to him. Even if you provide measurable data, he will respond with it not being perceivable. Which maybe he can’t, he is self described as “not being a guitar player”

Nothing wrong with that. But it’s that kind of circular argument that will keep him “on top”

I see why he has so much stock in Jim Lil videos now… I watched one of his videos and the whole thing was just playing a Lil video and pausing for commentary


*disclaimer: I have nothing against him lil, I watch his videos, he is a great player and seems like a personable dude, with an earnest interest in experimentation and seeking knowledge. I more so have a problem with nihilists that take the sometimes questionable “conclusions” from his videos too far into the realm of being clueless about the scientific method

The guitar is a system with dozens if not hundreds of factors in play leading to the end product. What matters to some might not matter to others, and if you want to talk about the audience, sure, none of it matters to most

Can never grasp the end game here with these types. But it definitely seems similar to the flat earthers who want to prove some “vast conspiracy” and pst themselves on the back for “seeing through the lies”

 

[spawnofthesith]

What was Jim Lill's fundamental flaw in his premise?

Which law of physics states that the construction material of a guitar must have some sort of effect on the electrical output? I could even go and grant that that statement was true and you would still have all the work left to do to show that it would be audible.

I don't think there is any reason to grant that of course, but the point still stands.

I’m not going to spoon feed you basic science. You still have the burden of proof backwards, and remain intentionally cryptic on your actual views/opinions for the sake of being argumentative. You have consistently through the thread commuted every fallacy you keep “calling out” and have been beyond evasive yourself. and at the end of the day don’t care enough to give a dissertation to someone that won’t be convinced either way. Read a book, i posted a great one a few pages back