IK TONEX CAB

[EOengineer]

Hopefully by the time it’s all spent there’s a 1x12 that sounds and feels like a 4x12 and weighs less than a bag of sugar.

I pulled my back wiping my ass last week - getting older sucks

Last year I cracked a rib sneezing. I’m not even old, apparently just shittily constructed.

 

[Mikael Dez]

Sure…sugar.

Last year I cracked a rib sneezing. I’m not even old, apparently just shittily constructed.

Yeah I’m only 36 lol - the Army added a decade or two though.

 

[DrewJD82]

Okay but you are also probably at the age “did I just pull my back by picking something out of the dishwasher?”

Oh dude, that age happened over 20 years ago for me. I’ve been throwing my back out putting on socks since I was 16 and my ex-girlfriend’s parents prodded me to lift a washing machine straight up in the air to get it out of their storage locker, where it was buried in the back corner surrounded by shit I was climbing on to reach it.

“Your back hurts? Good, I won’t have to worry about you trying to climb on my daughter later on, now get me that washer or you can kiss that semi-formal goodbye”

 

[jay mitchell]

Here's my answer to a post by IK from TOP. My post there was deleted by a mod, and I'm now suspended for a week:
From Peter -IK
"With regard to how loud TONEX Cab can go and the specs on our site:....The continuous maximum SPL is 123dB (122.9dB if we are being pedantic), see the attached SPL meter reading just taken this morning (though we've done it many, many times before) at one meter:"

My reply:
Thank you for the photo. You have brilliantly, if inadvertently, made my point. As anyone with a passing understanding of acoustics will recognize instantly, the proximity of the SPL meter's mic to the floor places it in an acoustic half-space, which increases the SPL it is exposed to by 6dB. That means that the actual SPL the speaker is producing at that distance is 116.9DB, not the indicated 122.9. To reduce the output of a speaker by 6dB means reducing applied power by a factor of 4.

Bottom line: this speaker's maximum SPL is not only unremarkable, it's actually a bit low. A 1x12 two-way speaker can be engineered to produce about 120dB at one meter. This one falls short by 3dB.

 

[TheTrueZoltan!]

So you're saying that the ToneX cab is only as loud as the engines of an Airbus A319 and not like those of a Boeing 747? I feel cheated.

 

[paisleywookiee]

Here's my answer to a post by IK from TOP:
From Peter -IK
"With regard to how loud TONEX Cab can go and the specs on our site:....The continuous maximum SPL is 123dB (122.9dB if we are being pedantic), see the attached SPL meter reading just taken this morning (though we've done it many, many times before) at one meter:"
View attachment 36681
My reply:
Thank you for the photo. You have brilliantly, if inadvertently, made my point. As anyone with a passing understanding of acoustics will recognize instantly, the proximity of the SPL meter's mic to the floor places it in an acoustic half-space, with increases the SPL it is exposed to by 6dB. That means that the actual SPL the speaker is producing at that distance is 116.9DB, not the indicated 122.9. To reduce the output of a speaker by 6dB means reducing applied power by a factor of 4.

Bottom line: this speaker's maximum SPL is not only unremarkable, it's actually a bit low. A 1x12 two-way speaker can be engineered to produce about 120dB at one meter. This one falls short by 3dB.

What would best remedy that, to get a more accurate reading? Serious question.

 

[jay mitchell]

What would best remedy that, to get a more accurate reading? Serious question.

At a minimum, elevate the mic and the cab three or so feet off the floor, and place both in the center of the room. The floor reflection will still influence the measurement somewhat, but it won't alter the overall level the meter sees by a significant amount. Ideally, a maximum SPL test represents free field sound from the speaker. IOW, it doesn't include major contributions from reflected energy. The 6-dB boundary effect is easy enough to avoid, however.

 

[paisleywookiee]

At a minimum, elevate the mic and the cab three or so feet off the floor, and place both in the center of the room. The floor reflection will still influence the measurement somewhat, but it won't alter the overall level the meter sees by a significant amount. Ideally, a maximum SPL test represents free field sound from the speaker. IOW, it doesn't include major contributions from reflected energy. The 6-dB boundary effect is easy enough to avoid, however.

Ah cool. That’s mostly how I’ve done it, except the cab part, which were just on casters. Thank you for the info.

 

[laxu]

Here's my answer to a post by IK from TOP:
From Peter -IK
"With regard to how loud TONEX Cab can go and the specs on our site:....The continuous maximum SPL is 123dB (122.9dB if we are being pedantic), see the attached SPL meter reading just taken this morning (though we've done it many, many times before) at one meter:"
View attachment 36681
My reply:
Thank you for the photo. You have brilliantly, if inadvertently, made my point. As anyone with a passing understanding of acoustics will recognize instantly, the proximity of the SPL meter's mic to the floor places it in an acoustic half-space, with increases the SPL it is exposed to by 6dB. That means that the actual SPL the speaker is producing at that distance is 116.9DB, not the indicated 122.9. To reduce the output of a speaker by 6dB means reducing applied power by a factor of 4.

Bottom line: this speaker's maximum SPL is not only unremarkable, it's actually a bit low. A 1x12 two-way speaker can be engineered to produce about 120dB at one meter. This one falls short by 3dB.

Was your reply deleted from TOP? I don't see it in that thread...but I do see a

DGTCrazy
Mod Squad:

Posts reported, removed and Thread Ban issued. Folks….There are rules for businesses regarding the limitations on how they may interact with competitors.

Sounds like you posted some uncomfortable truths...

 

[MirrorProfiles]

If they are deleting posts based on who said something rather than WHAT is being said, that's incredibly stupid. You just end up with marketing drivel over actual information.

 

[jay mitchell]

Was your reply deleted from TOP?

Yup.

I don't see it in that thread...but I do see a

DGTCrazy
Mod Squad:

Posts reported, removed and Thread Ban issued. Folks….There are rules for businesses regarding the limitations on how they may interact with competitors.

Again, yup. And - this is really, really important - I'm not a competitor of any vendor in the retail MI market, let alone of any vendor who advertises on their website. Nonetheless, I was suspended for a week, and some of my posts were deleted.

Sounds like you posted some uncomfortable truths...

Uh-huh. FWIW, I was well aware that I was doing that, and I knew that IK advertises there. I'm not entirely surprised by the outcome, but it does serve to illustrate the thinking of the ownership there.

 

[jay mitchell]

If they are deleting posts based on who said something rather than WHAT is being said, that's incredibly stupid. You just end up with marketing drivel over actual information.

That is precisely the result of their actions.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Is there a name for 69-position-a$$licking? Sure, you need to be really agile for that kinda performance, but apparently the dudes running TOP are.
Seriously, their behaviour is absolutely disgusting.

 

[OrganicZed]

Yup.

Again, yup. And - this is really, really important - I'm not a competitor of any vendor in the retail MI market, let alone of any vendor who advertises on their website. Nonetheless, I was suspended for a week, and some of my posts were deleted.

Uh-huh. FWIW, I was well aware that I was doing that, and I knew that IK advertises there. I'm not entirely surprised by the outcome, but it does serve to illustrate the thinking of the ownership there.

This is why I hang out here instead of there. The extent to which they censor on behalf of their advertisers is infuriating. They’re a bunch of corporate sellout shills.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

If they are deleting posts based on who said something rather than WHAT is being said, that's incredibly stupid. You just end up with marketing drivel over actual information.

I can see only being able to mod based on who says it rather than what when it truly is two competitors bickering over technical details, because the mods don't know who's right and who's wrong, but the correct solution isn't "to keep things civil, we will only let one side speak. Ever." I.e., the problem isn't that they've chosen to base the decision on "who" rather than "what", its that in every instance they only moderate one "who" when there are at least two that are equally motivated to be spewing nonsense.

I know everybody loves the access to vendors, etc., on forums and I'm in the minority, but I still feel pretty strongly that its much rarer that we get more useful information from their engagement in generalized forums. Its a sad state of affairs that in quite a few instances the fastest way to get a customer support reply is to post on a generalized forum, rather than to post on a vendor's own forum or even trying to call them directly.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

Here's my answer to a post by IK from TOP. My post there was deleted by a mod, and I'm now suspended for a week:
From Peter -IK
"With regard to how loud TONEX Cab can go and the specs on our site:....The continuous maximum SPL is 123dB (122.9dB if we are being pedantic), see the attached SPL meter reading just taken this morning (though we've done it many, many times before) at one meter:"
View attachment 36681
My reply:
Thank you for the photo. You have brilliantly, if inadvertently, made my point. As anyone with a passing understanding of acoustics will recognize instantly, the proximity of the SPL meter's mic to the floor places it in an acoustic half-space, with increases the SPL it is exposed to by 6dB. That means that the actual SPL the speaker is producing at that distance is 116.9DB, not the indicated 122.9. To reduce the output of a speaker by 6dB means reducing applied power by a factor of 4.

Bottom line: this speaker's maximum SPL is not only unremarkable, it's actually a bit low. A 1x12 two-way speaker can be engineered to produce about 120dB at one meter. This one falls short by 3dB.

Thanks for sharing these posts here.

The takeaway seems to be -- the only way to judge a PA-style speaker is to try it out in person?

I believe you have a small two-way monitor you built that you use personally -- have you ever measured (or calculated) its output capability? Just wondering what targets you shoot for in your real world application.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Its a sad state of affairs that in quite a few instances the fastest way to get a customer support reply is to post on a generalized forum, rather than to post on a vendor's own forum or even trying to call them directly.

Most vendors try to stick their head into the sand once serious issues are raised. The worst example possibly being Apple (and even more precisely, at least as long as my issues are concerned, their Logic development team). Apple's general support is organized quite decently, but as soon as there's real problems, it's over.
IK isn't much better, as soon as some serious issues are raised, they're wimps. Happened here, happened at KVR and who knows where else. And they're pretty quick with thread locking on their very own forums, too, telling you that you could always open a support ticket. Which usually doesn't lead anywhere.
Similar with NI as well, but at least recently they showed a little bit of decency.

This is why I just love companies such as U-He. Excellent support, great folks.
And even Steinberg isn't too bad, just recently I got through on their phone line comparatively quickly and got connected to someone really understanding the issue, which he instantly forwarded to their development team.

 

[ian_dissonance]

I’m just imaging Peter messaging the mods “Mom, the smart kid is saying words we don’t know and it’s making us feel bad! Send him home!”
NGL, though, the first brand that does what FR-12 does and doesn’t look like grandpas amps will probably have a winner. IMO this is too expensive with too many unnecessary features. When’s Fender doing an all black FR12?

 

[jay mitchell]

The takeaway seems to be -- the only way to judge a PA-style speaker is to try it out in person?

Or run some tests of your own, which most consumers are not equipped to do.

I believe you have a small two-way monitor you built that you use personally -- have you ever measured (or calculated) its output capability?

Yes. It's a two-way with an 8" woofer, dome tweeter, and a 250-watt (nominal) plate amp. It will comfortably produce a continuous 114dBSPL at a distance of 1 meter. At that SPL, it is drawing around 100 watts from the amp, so there's enough headroom that it still sounds clean. It's easily loud enough to keep up with a big band, which is all I ever use it for.

Just wondering what targets you shoot for in your real world application.

As much as a given format can reasonably be expected to produce. With a 12" woofer and compression driver/horn HF, 120dBSPL continuous is pretty much the maximum. That's what the CLR can do. It uses slightly more than 100 watts to get there.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

Yes. It's a two-way with an 8" woofer, dome tweeter, and a 250-watt (nominal) plate amp. It will comfortably produce a continuous 114dBSPL at a distance of 1 meter.

That’s not less than what a Deluxe Reverb with, say, an Alessandro speaker, is able to produce? Certainly not significantly less?