Hopefully....I'm going to eat some crow (Fender Tonemaster Pro content)

[[Nathan]]

This is all cliffs fault for being too damn productive, it makes all the competition look like snails

Fender seems to have set the cadence for themselves, at least it’s somewhat consistent compared to neuraldsp. Helix is long in the tooth and has a bazillion amps and effects so no one should be hanging out for updates, but Fender is still doing more than helix. Kemper… lol.

If you bought the TMP and were happy with it as it stood then you’ve got “more” now. I pretty much gravitate to the EVH stealth, rockverb, soldano and infrequently use the mesas and Friedman. I’d love to see more high gain stuff but it is what it is. Easy to dunk on not being happy with the latest run of amps but eh, maybe I’ll find some use out of the new pedals (comic sans drive already pretty sweet).

Guess it depends on what you want out of it. I’ve got real amps and plugins and I still just like flicking a modeller on and noodling away, the hands on is part of why I like it. If the EVH hypersonic cab turns out to be a keeper that alone would make a sweet rig just a tmp into the hypersonic.

 

[ChordInversion]

So you need 14 x more Fenders to get another 14 x versions of the same clean tone

Hah. There are some pretty great variations in their lower gain sounds. But it feels like these days, people think there's clean, and then there's modded Marshall or dual recto.

 

[ChordInversion]

This is all cliffs fault for being too damn productive, it makes all the competition look like snails

You're not wrong.

Fender seems to have set the cadence for themselves, at least it’s somewhat consistent compared to neuraldsp.

Yeah, I do acknowledge that they've been consistent.

If you bought the TMP and were happy with it as it stood then you’ve got “more” now.

That's my mistake. I got it thinking that it was missing stuff, but that it would fill out fairly soon. People who were happy from jump should stay that way or be even happier, naturally.

I pretty much gravitate to the EVH stealth, rockverb, soldano and infrequently use the mesas and Friedman. I’d love to see more high gain stuff but it is what it is. Easy to dunk on not being happy with the latest run of amps but eh, maybe I’ll find some use out of the new pedals (comic sans drive already pretty sweet).

See I wouldn't push back on folks wanting more high gain stuff. It's tough trying to be the device for everyone.

Guess it depends on what you want out of it.

It does. I saw the interface as being perfect for just replacing the "plug in, dial in, and play" experience, which for me meant being able to grab a guitar, pick an amp, dial in, and find a sound that strikes me. For me, more amps in the clean to low/mid gain range are part of that.

I’ve got real amps and plugins and I still just like flicking a modeller on and noodling away, the hands on is part of why I like it. If the EVH hypersonic cab turns out to be a keeper that alone would make a sweet rig just a tmp into the hypersonic.

I have the FR-10. It's very good.

 

[BenIfin]

Hah. There are some pretty great variations in their lower gain sounds. But it feels like these days, people think there's clean, and then there's modded Marshall or dual recto,

I actually %100 agree. Honestly, >%80 of my live playing is edge of breakup / mild-defined-crunch .... for this the UAD Dream through my HX Stomp Send/Return with a bit of " Prince Of Tone " [ ie: Marshall Bluesbreaker pedal ] boost does the trick beautifully ... if I need "almost clean" I just roll my guitar volume down to around 7.

 

[mikah912]

I see no issue with people wanting more and more, and Fender is attempting to give that to everyone.

But they're going to get roasted no matter what. If the last two updates were nothing but obscure older Fenders, Chord Inversion and some other dudes would be happy. Then, people like Nathan and myself would take it as proof that Fender can't do modern, non-Fender amps and probably give up on the platform.

They try to compromise with making Fender models at least 50 percent of the guitar amps added in each of the last several updates....still not enough for some. Make a huge update with 7 cabs, 4 guitar amps, 2 bass amps and 20+ new effects....they suck.

 

[timbuck3]

It seems that fender isn’t trying to catchup or even surpass fractal or helix but the have this gtx100/mustang mentality in modelers and seem to be following that route but with a better interface and it’s even though that whole SIC Thing isn’t really fixed which seems weird

 

[ChordInversion]

I see no issue with people wanting more and more, and Fender is attempting to give that to everyone.

It's true, and achieving that goal is also probably impossible.

But they're going to get roasted no matter what. If the last two updates were nothing but obscure older Fenders, Chord Inversion and some other dudes would be happy. Then, people like Nathan and myself would take it as proof that Fender can't do modern, non-Fender amps and probably give up on the platform.

Yes. That goes hand in hand with trying to be everything to all players. It's also 100% the norm for modelers, so I understand why Fender made that choice. We've come to expect it as the normal way of doing things with modelers, and I think it has unappreciated downsides. To me, it sacrifices depth for breadth. Also, side note: I don't think they'd have to go with 'obscure.' Fender's got decades worth of amp history. I don't think that they only made a handful of non-obscure amps over that time. I also don't think that the Bassbreaker and Blues Junior are tonal all time greats.

They try to compromise with making Fender models at least 50 percent of the guitar amps added in each of the last several updates....still not enough for some.

I mean, that's 5 guitar amps total over the course of a year and a half. It's not a lot. But yeah, it's the best they can do while also doing bass amps. And higher gain amps. And lots of effects.

Make a huge update with 7 cabs, 4 guitar amps, 2 bass amps and 20+ new effects....they suck.

I don't think they suck. I'm just surprised and obviously a little disappointed that they aren't taking more pride in Fender.

But maybe I shouldn't be surprised. All the major modelers have done this. None of the makers have said "Screw it. We love metal guitar. We're making a metal guitar modeler. We'll throw in a JC-120 model so you can play "Enter Sandman," but that's it. Indie rockers and classic rockers and bass players and jazz players can buy a different modeler." None have done it with any other subset of gain/tone ranges or manufacturers, either. Maybe they can't, because the market is small enough as it is. Maybe if you don't try to be all things to all players, you end up with too small of a market.

It may simply stick out to me with Fender because 1) they're relatively new to the market, so they're playing catch up in a big way, 2) they're the most influential guitar amp brand in history, with a longer history and wider ranging product line of their own than any of the others, and 3) my bias as to the utility of their interface. So to me at least, there's a little extra dissonance in them following what everyone else has done (in this way), and playing catch up. Maybe there shouldn't be.

I feel the same way about lots of deep and trippy effects and complex routing. Cool for the people who use them and need them. Just more stuff I'm rarely going to use for me.

But It is what it is. I'm over it. I'll keep it or I'll sell it, and Fender will continue with the normal playbook, possibly because there's no functional alternative.

 

[Tritium3H]

Well, everyone's needs and preferences are different. Nevertheless, I find it a bit odd about continued griping over a perceived shortage of Fender models. Darn, the TMP has got to have one of the finest curation of Fender amps — each and every one of them being top-tier digital models, at least on par with, and in some cases superior to Fractals — especially the models with the convolution spring reverbs.

This major update is particularly impressive, and shows that the Fender TMP truly listens to their customers. This update brings features that myself and many others have been requesting, which Fender had intimated were being explored as possibilities for a future updates. Well, I am pleased to find that they have come to fruition. Citing just two examples that are particularly notable, from my wish list:

a) the ability to employ dual mics on combos and half-stacks, obviating the prior need to use up a parallel path routing.

b) the incredible new convolution-based Plate and Hall Reverbs. Wowza.

 

[Mongillo19]

I have no interest in the TMP but I know a lot of us here (and I'm sure elsewhere) were concerned about if they'd truly update the device post launch.

They have definitely done well so far so I think we need to give them kudos for that. I don't think it would have shocked some of us if they would have gone silent after launch

 

[JiveTurkey]

So love him or hate him; this sounds great to my ears

No other content where people are actually demonstrating these updates and actually playing vs. reading fw release notes.

 

[ChordInversion]

Well, everyone's needs and preferences are different. Nevertheless, I find it a bit odd about continued griping over a perceived shortage of Fender models.

I said I was over it, but hey, I'm happy to discuss it again!

Darn, the TMP has got to have one of the finest curation of Fender amps

Line6 has both the normal and vibrato channels on the Deluxe, Super, and Twin Reverbs. They offer more channels on the Bassman and Tweed Deluxe, and they also have a Champ. No, they don't have the Bassbreaker or Blues Junior, and I'm sure their users are just beside themselves over it. Fractal has many more Fender amps. I know, both have been out for much longer. But that's the TMP's direct competition in the price range for modeling as opposed to profile/capture. They're still playing catch up, and it's not particularly close.

My own use case is in part informed by my FM9 experience. For me, the TMP would be a dream if it exceeded the FM9 Fender selection with that great, "plug in and dial in" interface.

 

[ChordInversion]

I have no interest in the TMP but I know a lot of us here (and I'm sure elsewhere) were concerned about if they'd truly update the device post launch.

They have definitely done well so far so I think we need to give them kudos for that. I don't think it would have shocked some of us if they would have gone silent after launch

Very, very good point. There was a whole lot of skepticism and concern that Fender might abandon this product as they have previous digital efforts. They deserve credit for sticking with this one.

 

[Tritium3H]

I said I was over it, but hey, I'm happy to discuss it again!


Line6 has both the normal and vibrato channels on the Deluxe, Super, and Twin Reverbs. They offer more channels on the Bassman and Tweed Deluxe, and they also have a Champ. No, they don't have the Bassbreaker or Blues Junior, and I'm sure their users are just beside themselves over it. Fractal has many more Fender amps. I know, both have been out for much longer. But that's the TMP's direct competition in the price range for modeling as opposed to profile/capture. They're still playing catch up, and it's not particularly close.

My own use case is in part informed by my FM9 experience. For me, the TMP would be a dream if it exceeded the FM9 Fender selection with that great, "plug in and dial in" interface.

Hello ChordInversion,

I own a Fractal FM9, as well, and absolutely love it. There are definitely (many) areas Fractal excels at, especially their Marshall-based models, as well as their huge selection of high-gain amps. However, IMHO, the Fender TMP models of their Fender amps are just as good, and in some cases superior to Fractals comparative versions…especially the models employing their convolution-based spring reverbs, such as the Princeton, Twin, Deluxe, and Super Reverbs.

I also am of the opinion that the TMP’s Soldano SLO-100 model is the cat’s meow, as well as their JCM800 and EVH high gain offerings.

There are a many effects and amps I prefer on my FM9… but likewise, there are quite a few amps and effects i prefer on the TMP. However, the singularly decisive feature of the TMP, which is the reason I am using it more and more, by comparison, is the TMP’s unparalleled ease-of-use and facility to locally adjust and edit — directly on the device — without the need for connection to an ancillary device/PC running a software Editor. Yes, I realize if one has the time, patience and inclination, almost all parameters can be accessed directly from the FM9’s onboard controls. But, to be honest…I’d rather have a root canal.

Cheers,
John