Fender Tonemaster Deluxe/Twin Power

[ValleyVegan]

I regularly gig with my Fender Tonemaster Twin, and set it on 4 , on the 40w setting. This gives me plenty of headroom. According to Fenders specs "the amp is 200W into 4Ω (Simulates 85W Tube Amp Performance)", ( it has 2 x 12 inch speakers rated at 65 w each) . I was thinking of replacing the speakers with more efficient ones, but they are only rated at 40w each. Given that I am running this amp on its 40w attenuated state, would they be safe?
I have a Fender Tonemaster Deluxe which I changed the 65w speaker to a 40w speaker and have no problem at all running it on its full ( 22w) setting with the volume at 4 to 5 at gigs. Fenders official Blurb states "100W into 8Ω (Simulates 22W Tube Amp Performance)"
Im finding these amps ratings confusing. Anyone help me understand what they are capable of putting out to the speakers please?

 

[Frodebro]

The power ratings are confusing, mainly because Fender is a bit misleading with their marketing. The Tonemasters use power modules that are intentionally more powerful than what they will ever be called upon to use in those amps in order to maintain clean headroom all the way up. So figure on the specified output power for each amp (22W for the Deluxe and 85w for the Twin).

If you never go above the 40 watt output on your Twin, you will be perfectly safe with a pair of 40 watt speakers. They’ll even be fine for full power as long as you keep the volume reasonable.

 

[ValleyVegan]

The power ratings are confusing, mainly because Fender is a bit misleading with their marketing. The Tonemasters use power modules that are intentionally more powerful than what they will ever be called upon to use in those amps in order to maintain clean headroom all the way up. So figure on the specified output power for each amp (22W for the Deluxe and 85w for the Twin).

If you never go above the 40 watt output on your Twin, you will be perfectly safe with a pair of 40 watt speakers. They’ll even be fine for full power as long as you keep the volume reasonable.

Thank you, after seeing Fender somewhat exagerated claim of 1000w on their FR12, I dont know what to believe off them any more.

 

[Frodebro]

Thank you, after seeing Fender somewhat exagerated claim of 1000w on their FR12, I dont know what to believe off them any more.

Same deal, the FRs use 1000w power amps that are limited to outputs well below that to prevent the amp from clipping. When solid state devices clip, they aren’t musically pleasing and speakers can get destroyed.

 

[ValleyVegan]

Same deal, the FRs use 1000w power amps that are limited to outputs well below that to prevent the amp from clipping. When solid state devices clip, they aren’t musically pleasing and speakers can get destroyed.

Especially as the driver in the FR12 is only rated at 150 w!!

 

[Jarick]

Apples oranges and grapes.

Tube amps are very generously rated as they create more power when distorted

Solid state usually somewhere between RMS and peak power full range

PA speakers especially cheap ones are probably rated on one specific frequency at peak power under ideal circumstances just to brag on a big number

Realistically I think with those Fenders they’ll be similar volume to a comparable tube combo. I’d take them at their word on the tube power equivalent but completely ignore any claims over say 200 watts.

 

[Chocol8]

A tube Twin can put out over 100 watts when driven, so that’s why they need a 200w amp module to match it with sufficient margin to not clip.

Two speakers rated for 40w each should be enough for anything at bearable volumes, especially if they are more efficient. 80 watts into efficient speakers is going to be VERY loud. I would make that swap and just avoid cranking it on the full power setting with a fuzz in front. That shouldn’t be hard!

 

[JiveTurkey]

We were watching Romancing the Stone the other day and it suddenly struck me that Gene Simmons would have been a great replacement for Schwarzenegger in Twins.

 

[paisleywookiee]

The power ratings are confusing, mainly because Fender is a bit misleading with their marketing. The Tonemasters use power modules that are intentionally more powerful than what they will ever be called upon to use in those amps in order to maintain clean headroom all the way up. So figure on the specified output power for each amp (22W for the Deluxe and 85w for the Twin).

If you never go above the 40 watt output on your Twin, you will be perfectly safe with a pair of 40 watt speakers. They’ll even be fine for full power as long as you keep the volume reasonable.

Agree on all of this.

 

[Frodebro]

Apples oranges and grapes.

Tube amps are very generously rated as they create more power when distorted

Solid state usually somewhere between RMS and peak power full range

PA speakers especially cheap ones are probably rated on one specific frequency at peak power under ideal circumstances just to brag on a big number

Realistically I think with those Fenders they’ll be similar volume to a comparable tube combo. I’d take them at their word on the tube power equivalent but completely ignore any claims over say 200 watts.

Total harmonic distortion is what separates tubes and solid state. Solid state beyond about 5% is a hot mess, it sounds harsh and that’s the warning that the amp is close to clipping in a very bad way.

Typical power ratings for solid state generally are based on 1% or less THD.

Vacuum tubes also can get pushed beyond their clean rating, but in their case it sounds fucking great. Also, the very nature of vacuum tubes causes them to run higher THD levels from the get-go in guitar amp circuits. A Twin is generally regarded as a very clean amp, but that clean has measurable THD that is higher than most would realize. That touch of imperceptible distortion is the special sauce that makes tube amps sound so good.

 

[MadMaxG79]

We were watching Romancing the Stone the other day and it suddenly struck me that Gene Simmons would have been a great replacement for Schwarzenegger in Twins.

I remember watching Romancing the Stone soooo many times as a kid on our VCR... Twins not so much - although I can definitely see the resemblance between DeVito and Simmons. Funny that they used the pair (Arnold and Danny) for Junior as well... Not exactly a great movie either.
Speaking of Twins, I DO remember watching Double Impact with JVD more times than I'd like to admit