Helix Talk

[Sascha Franck]

From what I hear, 5 just seems like way too much.

I would agree on that. I also think that the Master Volume on MV amps is turned up too much in most Helix defaults. The combination of high Sag and MV values makes some amps sound same-ish IMO, let alone it steals definition.

 

[DieSchmalle]

From what I hear, 5 just seems like way too much. Even for the “Brit J45”. They don’t droop that much or for that long IRL.

Depends. Those vintage ones with tube rectifiers definitely have that sag.

 

[dronerstone]

From what I hear, 5 just seems like way too much. Even for the “Brit J45”. They don’t droop that much or for that long IRL.

I'll have to try that. My real-life amps (LAB Series, Ampeg, Fender Twin) also don't sag very much, so maybe that's a good thing to keep in mind.

 

[HomespunEffects]

Depends. Those vintage ones with tube rectifiers definitely have that sag.

Yeah, I’m just saying the presets have it overstated.

I usually start with Sag at 0 because I think my real life amps never sagged much, either (I always preferred lotsa clean headroom). But especially on clean and clean-ish sounds, I sometimes just turn it up some as it's resulting in a little bit of neat compression.

That sounds reasonable.

My comparing it to an autowah was hyperbole but listen to it compared between zero and ten. It goes from “eeeeeeee” to “breeeoww” (those are commonly accepted scientific terms*).

* source: I made them up.

 

[Sascha Franck]

My comparing it to an autowah was hyperbole but listen to it compared between zero and ten. It goes from “eeeeeeee” to “breeeoww” (those are commonly accepted scientific terms*).

Well, these are 4 bars with Sag on 0 and 4 bars with Sag on 10, compensated the volume a bit but otherwise everything but Sag is 1:1 identical. I absolutely don't hear any such drastic differences, but maybe it's the amp I used (2203). I doubt it, though.

(sorry for the lame riff)

 

[DieSchmalle]

Well, these are 4 bars with Sag on 0 and 4 bars with Sag on 10, compensated the volume a bit but otherwise everything but Sag is 1:1 identical. I absolutely don't hear any such drastic differences, but maybe it's the amp I used (2203). I doubt it, though.

It depends on the amp model and how hard it's virtual power supply is pushed.

If you use an amp with a "big" power supply and don't draw too much power from it by using low master then you have reserves. You can shrink the power supply by increasing sag and don't recognize much difference because you're still in the comfort zone where all the needed power can be supplied.

Try the same test with the Essex 15.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Try the same test with the Essex 15.

Just did that. With Sag on 10 it doesn't sound like any amp I've ever played. Sort of like a compressor with very unnatural attack and release values. Especially the attack doesn't seem natural at all (way too long, a sagging amp should sag straight away, as sag is a result of the amp not being able to process the signal sort of linear anymore).

 

[HomespunEffects]

It depends on the amp model and how hard it's virtual power supply is pushed.

If you use an amp with a "big" power supply and don't draw too much power from it by using low master then you have reserves. You can shrink the power supply by increasing sag and don't recognize much difference because you're still in the comfort zone where all the needed power can be supplied.

Try the same test with the Essex 15.

Yes, and dig in.

 

[HomespunEffects]

Just did that. With Sag on 10 it doesn't sound like any amp I've ever played. Sort of like a compressor with very unnatural attack and release values. Especially the attack doesn't seem natural at all (way too long, a sagging amp should sag straight away, as sag is a result of not being able to process the signal sort of linear anymore).

That’s it but even at 5 it feels like too much. 2-3 seems to work on the Brit J45.

 

[DieSchmalle]

Just did that. With Sag on 10 it doesn't sound like any amp I've ever played. Sort of like a compressor with very unnatural attack and release values. Especially the attack doesn't seem natural at all (way too long, a sagging amp should sag straight away, as sag is a result of the amp not being able to process the signal sort of linear anymore).

Try it again with drive at 0.5.

I think it is realistic - which in this case is not necessarily the best. The time constant is part of the design of the amps.

In an ideal world (or Fractalian dystopia) we would have an additional B+ time constant parameter to tweak this.

 

[0XI0]

I would agree on that. I also think that the Master Volume on MV amps is turned up too much in most Helix defaults. The combination of high Sag and MV values makes some amps sound same-ish IMO, let alone it steals definition.

I wish they'd audio taper the master volumes so 0.0 through 2.5 would be like the first half of the range, once it's in meltdown like 3/4 of the whole range is just goo, you get all the way up there in about 2.6mm

 

[ragingplatypi]

I know you may have though of this already but just in case…
Being that the Helix team has tried to make their models as realistic as possible, I try to make sure the master is where I’d have it in real life before I mess with sag and bias. Sometimes I have to do more research than I’d really want to.
I’m sorry to hear the plugin experience isn’t working out. Personally I’ve had so much frustration with DAWs and plugins in the past that the way the HX pedals work with the computer so easily was a big selling point for me. Recording with the HX Stomp has been a dream.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I think it is realistic - which in this case is not necessarily the best. The time constant is part of the design of the amps.

Dunno, seriously. This feels extremely non amp alike. It's more like a built in smartphone compressor. But my Vox experience is AC30 only, so I can't exactly tell.

 

[molul]

Jeez, I've spent 6 hours(*) updating all my presets with some new settings on my go-to amps (Line6 Clarity for full cleans, Brit 2203 for slightly dirty, and Revv Gen Red+10 band EQ for distortion), and now I understand those who ask for global blocks.

It would be really handy being able to set a parameter to get what the global block's parameter has, so you only need to change that in one place, instead of dozens XD Favorites help, but do not solve this "problem".

Anyway, god bless Helix Native. If I had had to do this on my Helix, it would have been days XD

(*) The 6 hours were needed for callibrating volumes on every snapshot comparing with the original presets, not just for updating the parameters :)

 

[ragingplatypi]

(*) The 6 hours were needed for callibrating volumes on every snapshot comparing with the original presets, not just for updating the parameters :)

Yeah, managing snapshots kills me.

 

[HomespunEffects]

… Personally I’ve had so much frustration with DAWs and plugins in the past that the way the HX pedals work with the computer so easily was a big selling point for me. Recording with the HX Stomp has been a dream.

That’s good to hear.

 

[timbuck3]

I have always thought line 6 helix has some vg effects.. not all but many

 

[pipelineaudio]

Is there still no way to reorder snapshots in HX edit?

 

[pipelineaudio]

Jeez, I've spent 6 hours(*) updating all my presets with some new settings on my go-to amps (Line6 Clarity for full cleans, Brit 2203 for slightly dirty, and Revv Gen Red+10 band EQ for distortion), and now I understand those who ask for global blocks.

It would be really handy being able to set a parameter to get what the global block's parameter has, so you only need to change that in one place, instead of dozens XD Favorites help, but do not solve this "problem".

Anyway, god bless Helix Native. If I had had to do this on my Helix, it would have been days XD

(*) The 6 hours were needed for callibrating volumes on every snapshot comparing with the original presets, not just for updating the parameters :)

This is why I have a tonex, also it takes some DSP load off the Helix so I can use Poly Capo

 

[molul]

This is why I have a tonex, also it takes some DSP load off the Helix so I can use Poly Capo

That's handy, but I need to be able to change amp parameters on snapshot changes, so an external solution won't work for me