Lysander
Shredder
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See f.ex. Fractal FM-9, TMP and, hatetomentionit NDSP's QC. Headrush's new line is even more recent, but literally the same hardware as their previous generation.
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Helix Talk
- Thread starter Alex Kenivel
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See f.ex. Fractal FM-9, TMP and, hatetomentionit NDSP's QC. Headrush's new line is even more recent, but literally the same hardware as their previous generation.
ian_dissonance
Roadie
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[/QUOTE]
Except none of those have the same hardware set, like at all.
FM9 is missing the the Line 6 native I/O, mic preamps/phantom power + expression pedal. Oh, and it's $1800!
TMP is missing the same, but is under an essentially permanent price cut, presumably in response to suboptimal sales momentum.
I already addressed QC.
Sascha Franck
Rock Star
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Let's face it, very little people need the entire hardware set of the Helix Floor. Mic and Variax inputs usually are wasted, even SPDIF doesn't seem to see any use with most folks. Capactive switches aren't needed in case you have a touchscreen and most people likely get away fine with one FX loop. Add to this some Helix components aren't exactly military grade, to put it carefully.
And as far as onboard expression pedals go, there seem to be plenty of folks who rather would not have them (fwiw, personally I love them because it's easy to realize wah/volume switching, which I use all the time).
For me, the one huge advance the HX line has over everything else is Helix Native - but that's not hardware related and apparently it's not all that important for other folks.
Others than that, unless you really need something very close to the very exact feature set of the Helix, the competition has gotten extremely tight.
And yes, I absolutely liked my Helix Floor and possibly like my HX Stomp even more, but the next Line 6 modeling generation needed to offer quite something or come at a very competitive price.
ian_dissonance
Roadie
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Native is awesome, love having that option. Because all of that stuff isn’t for everyone is pretty irrelevant to the comparison that was being made. The point was that, whether someone is using it or not, other hardware can’t/doesn’t/won’t do everything Helix does, especially not for a significantly lower price. And you can count me in the list of people that will never consider a floor modeler without an EXP a worthwhile purchase. I understand why some people don’t want them, but their arguments don’t mean anything to how I use my devices and I probably won’t buy L6 next Gen if it requires me to also buy and external expression pedal just to use things like volume, pitch, speed, etc.
Lysander
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Of course not, but it's at least comparable. FM9 f.ex. also has features Helix don't cover at all (instrument + dual balanced in, dual stereo XLR outs, etc), and runs beefier hardware. In general I agree with Helix having by far the best feature set / price ratio in its category otherwise.
Again, I'm not trying to go keyboard crusader and double guess L6's freaking chief product architect here. It's an honest question, because if the street price for a brand new flagship is ~$2k, we all have bigger problems to worry about.
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Exluthier
Groupie
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Honestly I'm considering doing this with a NDSP plugin setup. I saw the band Orbit Culture live back in August and their whole rig was a laptop using the Gojira plugin. Sounded amazing.
By this logic, "very little people" need all of the myriad of amp, cab, and effects options in the Helix - or any modeler with a good selection of content - as well. They have all of those options so that a single SKU can appeal to the widest possible subset of users/customers in a niche industry. The next Helix may not have a Variax input because the line is defunct, or maybe it'll have something better because Line 6 will have a new iteration of the idea. But one of their strengths is leveraging the success of one product line into enriching an entirely separate product line.
So the utility of Variax goes up when you can auto-switch different models and tunings across different Helix presets. The utility of the Catalyst amp goes up when those channels are fed right back into the HX hardware and software. The utility of their consumer-oriented wireless went up when they integrated it into the ultimate consumer-friendly modeler prop - Pod GO.
And that is a perfect example of how they offer something unique and useful. They're certainly not going to differentiate if they just shove Helix with a slightly upgraded chip into a "me too" touchscreen QC-esque chassis that can run, say, NAM captures.
Helix had a huge launch because there was nothing like it when they announced it. It's stayed relevant because they put a ton of effort into development for going on a decade and counting. That's where they need to continue to prove their mettle.
They're never going to win a touchscreen war or a capture/profile/clone war or any of the other features that are essentially commoditized now.
I've seen bands use plugins live before too. While some sounded great that night, none of them stayed with that as a solution in the long term.
Exluthier
Groupie
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In an interview the lead singer/ guitarist said he liked the setup but wanted to find a way to have live cabs again
JiveTurkey
Goatlord
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Orbit Culture SHOULD have amps and cabs onstage 
Sascha Franck
Rock Star
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Sure, but these are just software. Quite a difference.
dronerstone
Shredder
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With click track and automation, a laptop bound rig makes a gig feel like a session of Guitar Hero. 
Not sure if I'd want that, but it might work for some people, and I think it's a reasonable approach.
Not sure if I'd want that, but it might work for some people, and I think it's a reasonable approach.
Exluthier
Groupie
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Touring expenses these days seems to be making that a luxury. But they're phenomenal live.Orbit Culture SHOULD have amps and cabs onstage
Sascha Franck
Rock Star
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And fwiw, I'd almost bet that people using plugins live will become at least a sort of bigger thing one day more or less soon.
Affordable, yet capable computers with zero heat issues and zero moving parts inside only got popular not all *that* long ago - and that trend very likely won't stop any day soon. In fact, the Windows world will have to catch up as well.
Add to this that affordable low latency interfaces are getting more common, too.
As of today, you could get, say, the cheapest Macbook Air (which can run 3-4 fully stuffed HX Native instances on one single core), add a Motu M2 (allowing you to run everything at 3.5ms RTL), purchase Mainstage and then install NAM and a bunch of freeware. That's just around €1,500.
Add a decent foot controller, a case and possibly a cheap tablet running TouchOSC as an "adjustment controller" (so the Macbook could be closed and pushed into a rack drawer) and you're still <2k. That'd already be a setup simply blowing most modelers away in a whole number of disciplines. Spend another 500 bucks for plugins and you have a killer setup.
Affordable, yet capable computers with zero heat issues and zero moving parts inside only got popular not all *that* long ago - and that trend very likely won't stop any day soon. In fact, the Windows world will have to catch up as well.
Add to this that affordable low latency interfaces are getting more common, too.
As of today, you could get, say, the cheapest Macbook Air (which can run 3-4 fully stuffed HX Native instances on one single core), add a Motu M2 (allowing you to run everything at 3.5ms RTL), purchase Mainstage and then install NAM and a bunch of freeware. That's just around €1,500.
Add a decent foot controller, a case and possibly a cheap tablet running TouchOSC as an "adjustment controller" (so the Macbook could be closed and pushed into a rack drawer) and you're still <2k. That'd already be a setup simply blowing most modelers away in a whole number of disciplines. Spend another 500 bucks for plugins and you have a killer setup.
pablo retamal
Roadie
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It is or even so it is more expensive than a used LT!
Exluthier
Groupie
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And honestly buying off the used market, you can probably do it a lot cheaper than that.
Sascha Franck
Rock Star
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Sure. But as far as Macbooks go, I wouldn't do that as they're either still expensive or close to their EOL support-wise. But then, otoh, you may never need support once that setup is configured and running.
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