Helix Talk

[mercifulfuzziness]

When I lower my sag it just feels better

 

[HomespunEffects]

When I lower my sag it just feels better

The bass is more …

… uhhh … immediate?

 

[HomespunEffects]

I meant balls.

 

[dk_ace]

I need to know how you guys are defining sag. Are we all talking about the same thing?

There’s a literal sag control on the amp models. It adjusts the power supply sag of the amp.

D

 

[HomespunEffects]

There’s a literal sag control on the amp models. It adjusts the power supply sag of the amp.

D

Not what i asked.

 

[molul]

Gonna have to try that bias 8/bias x 1 trick.

Regarding sag, hum and ripple, I think I read that the best settings were 0 to all. I'm one of those who don't know how to evaluate what it does to the sound or feel

 

[DieSchmalle]

I need to know how you guys are defining sag. Are we all talking about the same thing?

You hit a note on a cranked amp and the power supply can't handle it -> power supply sag.
Sag lets you dial in an HX model from big, tight, bold to juicy, spongy and forgiving, it's a compressor type of effect within an amp.

 

[mercifulfuzziness]

You hit a note on a cranked amp and the power supply can't handle it -> power supply sag.
Sag lets you dial in an HX model from big, tight, bold to juicy, spongy and forgiving, it's a compressor type of effect within an amp.

Bold and Juicy.

Tell me more

 

[molul]

You hit a note on a cranked amp and the power supply can't handle it -> power supply sag.
Sag lets you dial in an HX model from big, tight, bold to juicy, spongy and forgiving, it's a compressor type of effect within an amp.

What does "can't handle it" mean?

 

[Frodebro]

What does "can't handle it" mean?

The power the tubes are trying to draw is greater than what the power supply can provide, so the initial attack of the note will feel squishy or spongy.

 

[DieSchmalle]

What does "can't handle it" mean?

E.g. the amp want's to put out 120 watts but the power supply can only provide 100 watts.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Sag in the real world really only exists on Class AB amps using tube rectifiers. Which is why there's happening pretty much nothing (or even nothing at all, haven't explored it carefully enough) on, say, Fender amps.

 

[HomespunEffects]

You hit a note on a cranked amp and the power supply can't handle it -> power supply sag.
Sag lets you dial in an HX model from big, tight, bold to juicy, spongy and forgiving, it's a compressor type of effect within an amp.

Yes, that's the technical definition. What do you hear?

Here's what it is. At the moment of the pick attack the power tubes demand more current than can be supplied. The low end is basically filtered down and then bounces back. It's like turning a high pass filter knob on a keyboard from nearly full to zero. Except it's more subtle, a lot more subtle. It's like making a bass note with your mouth, with no sag you just say "BUHMMMMMMMMM", with a lot of sag you would say "BUHYUHMMMMMMMM" the BUH is the initial pick attach and the YUH is the recovery.

 

[mercifulfuzziness]

Yes, that's the technical definition. What do you hear?

Here's what it is. At the moment of the pick attack the power tubes demand more current than can be supplied. The low end is basically filtered down and then bounces back. It's like turning a high pass filter knob on a keyboard from nearly full to zero. Except it's more subtle, a lot more subtle. It's like making a bass note with your mouth, with no sag you just say "BUHMMMMMMMMM", with a lot of sag you would say "BUHYUHMMMMMMMM" the BUH is the initial pick attach and the YUH is the recovery.

6 people on a couch next to the wife making a bass sound with the mouth

 

[HomespunEffects]

Bold and Juicy.

Like … balls?

 

[DieSchmalle]

Sag in the real world really only exists on Class AB amps using tube rectifiers. Which is why there's happening pretty much nothing (or even nothing at all, haven't explored it carefully enough) on, say, Fender amps.

The Tweed Bassman (a Fender amp) and the Matchless DC 30 (a "class A" amp) would be counter examples. Both have that forgiving bounce when you hit them, but yes: both use tube rectifiers to achieve this.

 

[Sascha Franck]

The Tweed Bassman (a Fender amp) and the Matchless DC 30 (a "class A" amp) would be counter examples. Both have that forgiving bounce when you hit them, but yes: both use tube rectifiers to achieve this.

Need to check with them.

As said before: On some amps it's feeling/sounding rather un-plausible.
The good thing being that I usually don't want any sagging at all. There's a loss of dynamics all over the place anyway.

 

[mercifulfuzziness]

maybe Line 6 could have an option to put it on / off

 

[Sascha Franck]

maybe Line 6 could have an option to put it on / off

You can. Just turn it all the way down.

 

[mercifulfuzziness]

You can. Just turn it all the way down.

Ah just like hum and rip. But doing that might also take away from that amp sound