Helix Talk

[Sascha Franck]

How good are the HX overdrives?

Pretty damn good. Not necessarily 1:1 clones of the originals (at least not of the ones I own or compared to) but usually (at least) sufficient to fill the same spot as the originals. Unfortunately, there's a shortage of "amp in a box" pedals, which would be great to have in case you're like me and typically prefer to work with clean pedal platform amps. Using an entire preamp instead IMO is overkill and also taxing the good old CPU quite a bit more than most drive pedals.

And oh...:

The HX ecosystem needs an RC Boost. Urgently.

 

[banned]

Pretty damn good. Not necessarily 1:1 clones of the originals (at least not of the ones I own or compared to) but usually (at least) sufficient to fill the same spot as the originals. Unfortunately, there's a shortage of "amp in a box" pedals, which would be great to have in case you're like me and typically prefer to work with clean pedal platform amps. Using an entire preamp instead IMO is overkill and also taxing the good old CPU quite a bit more than most drive pedals.

And oh...:

How does the EP Boost differ from the AC Boost and the RC Boost?

 

[Lele]

How does the EP Boost differ from the AC Boost and the RC Boost?

They are completely different.
The "Kinky boost" (=EP Booster) is a very simple overdrive circuit using only the op-amp clipping and generating some asymmetrical clipping, on the contrary the AC/RC Booster pedals are overdrive circuits similar to the Tubescreamer (op-amp clipping, diodes in the feedback, a lot of equalization) even if their equalization is a little more flat.

 

[Lele]

The HX ecosystem needs an RC Boost. Urgently.

Imho the Timmy (maybe with asymmetrical switch position) isn't that far. Same type of soft clipping, a lot of dB boost, and its passive equalization can almost mimic anything without too much sound footprint (unlike active EQ controls).
Well, RC/AC Booster pedals have a little more mids, because their "Tubescreamer" origin comes out, and you could push a lot the highs and lows if you adjust the knobs (active tone circuit) towards the maximum values.

 

[mercifulfuzziness]

Minotaur >> Kinky boost >> Super Reverb or Ac30

Lovely

 

[Sascha Franck]

Well, RC/AC Booster pedals have a little more mids,

Might be true for the AC, but the RC has pretty little of its own sonic fingerprint and no noticeable mid hump.
I will try the Teemah for that purpose again, though.

 

[I S]

Are they using low / high cuts in the Cab block maybe ?
Try filtering some of the highs out so it just has the freq of a Normal cab , about 5500 khz on the top end , 80Hz on the lows

Thanks for replying. Playing both back and forth, I think I’ve actually figured something important today.

It sounds like NDSP compress the highs, which is why it’s almost impossible to make the plugin sound harsh, and it explains what @Digital Igloo once said about how NDSP have this unnatural behavior in the mids. It’s probably also why it sounds more pleasing to me.

In any case, I’ve been able to recreate that by placing a 3-Band Comp right after the HX cab. With the levels of the amp+cab at unity volume with the bypassed signal, the following settings work nicely for me (and feel good too):

Ratio: 20:1
Attack: 35ms
Release: 200ms
Lo X Freq: 400 Hz
Hi X Freq: 2.0 kHz
Level: +3.5dB
Lo Thresh: 0.0dB
Lo Gain: 0.0dB
Mid Thresh: -4.5dB
Mid Gain: 0.0dB
Hi Thresh: -34.0dB
Hi Gain: -2.0dB

Try it out!

 

[Lele]

Also, you overlooked that Pillars also has a no-clipping options.

You're right!

Pillars mode 1: overdrive with symmetrical clipping (only odd harmonics), similar to TubeScreamer
Pillars mode 2: clean boost if gain = 0 but still with low cut like typical TubeScreamer (higher gain is more similar to mode 3 and to the "Kinky boost")
Pillars mode 3: overdrive with asymmetrical clipping (mix of even and odd harmonics), similar to Boss SD-1 ("Stupor OD")

And by the way, with gain=0 the Minotaur OD, too, is a clean boost, with a rather flat eq.

 

[mercifulfuzziness]

You're right!

Pillars mode 1: overdrive with symmetrical clipping (only odd harmonics), similar to TubeScreamer
Pillars mode 2: clean boost if gain = 0 but still with low cut like typical TubeScreamer (higher gain is more similar to mode 3 and to the "Kinky boost")
Pillars mode 3: overdrive with asymmetrical clipping (mix of even and odd harmonics), similar to Boss SD-1 ("Stupor OD")

And by the way, with gain=0 the Minotaur OD, too, is a clean boost, with a rather flat eq.

Side question. “Your” sag (not meant to sound funny” according to the manual would be more metal type of music (lower is metal and tight response) and high would be more blues. Is that what you play?

 

[Lele]

Side question. “Your” sag (not meant to sound funny” according to the manual would be more metal type of music (lower is metal and tight response) and high would be more blues. Is that what you play?

I stopped playing with bands when Covid-19 started, and I played cover songs, mainly pop-rock style.
I love rock music (from soft/pop to progressive rock and metal) but I wouldn't include blues among my favorite style (except for Jonny Lang and Sonny Landreth but only the not-too-bluesy albums). Generally I prefer to set the sag parameter a little low (about 2-3), even if with clean tones sometimes I use higher values. I think that this is anyway just a personal preference.

 

[mercifulfuzziness]

I stopped playing with bands when Covid-19 started, and I played cover, mainly pop-rock style.
I love rock music (from soft/pop to progressive rock and metal) but I wouldn't include blues among my favorite style (except for Jonny Lang and Sonny Landreth but only the not-too-bluesy albums). Generally I prefer to set the sag parameter a little low (about 2-3), even if with clean tones sometimes I use higher values. I think that this is anyway just a personal preference.

Sag is a difficult one to hear, so difficult that lots of people just leave everything below as is. The hum and rip is more obvious. So leave that at 0,5 to get a bit of it but barely. Bias, bias x and sag is difficult but I like your 8 for bias and 1 for bias x

 

[Lele]

Sag is a difficult one to hear

I'd define it like amp compression. But the impact and real difference between low and high values depend also on your pick/finger technique and on the other amp parameters. By the way, "bias" has (also) an effect on the amp compression; high bias means more amp compression, so my preference of high bias and low sag tend to compensate each other.

 

[mercifulfuzziness]

I'd define it like amp compression. But the impact and real difference between low and high values depend also on your pick/finger technique and on the other amp parameters. By the way, "bias" has (also) an effect on the amp compression; high bias means more amp compression, so my preference of high bias and low sag tend to compensate each other.

Seems like around 6-7 on both bias and sag than leads to a more natural amp sound?

 

[Lele]

Seems like around 6-7 on both bias and sag than leads to a more natural amp sound?

Imho there's no "natural" amp sound. I mean that some amps have higher sag and some has very low sag (depending on their circuits), and you can anyway adjust this behaviour on real amps too (even if there's not a knob for it; you have to work on the amp rectifier circuit).

 

[Sascha Franck]

Fwiw, based on Lele's comments, I tried the Teemah as a boost - works quite well but I vastly prefer the tone controls of my various RC Boost clones (I actually even prefer the clones over the original that I also own). The Teemah will find some booster use, though.

 

[Lele]

Fwiw, based on Lele's comments, I tried the Teemah as a boost - works quite well but I vastly prefer the tone controls of my various RC Boost clones (I actually even prefer the clones over the original that I also own).

If (within Helix world) you want to try a separate EQ block after the Teemah to get more flexibility and more adjustment, you can consider that AC/RC Booster pedals have a Baxandall EQ circuit (a type of shelving equalizer).

 

[Sascha Franck]

If (within Helix world) you want to try a separate EQ block after the Teemah to get more flexibility and more adjustment, you can consider that AC/RC Booster pedals have a Baxandall EQ circuit (a type of shelving equalizer).

Yeah, sure, but I absolutely prefer to only use one single unit (I do however sometimes use an additional EQ with the Top Secret OD).

 

[eggpl@nt]

You're right!

Pillars mode 1: overdrive with symmetrical clipping (only odd harmonics), similar to TubeScreamer
Pillars mode 2: clean boost if gain = 0 but still with low cut like typical TubeScreamer (higher gain is more similar to mode 3 and to the "Kinky boost")
Pillars mode 3: overdrive with asymmetrical clipping (mix of even and odd harmonics), similar to Boss SD-1 ("Stupor OD")

And by the way, with gain=0 the Minotaur OD, too, is a clean boost, with a rather flat eq.

Yeah, I think with my physical Klon clones, I was able to get the gain knob up to 9-10 o clock or so before I actually saw any clipping in the waveform. Granted, that was a static 1kHz sinusoid, so I suppose it's possible other frequencies or more dynamic signals could clip sooner.

I want some of the EQ'ing though, so I'd use the Klon with the Treble a bit higher. That's why I need to experiment more with roll-your-own boosts using an EQ block.

 

[SillyOctpuss]

Yeah, I think with my physical Klon clones, I was able to get the gain knob up to 9-10 o clock or so before I actually saw any clipping in the waveform. Granted, that was a static 1kHz sinusoid, so I suppose it's possible other frequencies or more dynamic signals could clip sooner.

It'll depend on the Vf curve of the diodes used too.

 

[GTR37]

Thanks for replying. Playing both back and forth, I think I’ve actually figured something important today.

It sounds like NDSP compress the highs, which is why it’s almost impossible to make the plugin sound harsh, and it explains what @Digital Igloo once said about how NDSP have this unnatural behavior in the mids. It’s probably also why it sounds more pleasing to me.

In any case, I’ve been able to recreate that by placing a 3-Band Comp right after the HX cab. With the levels of the amp+cab at unity volume with the bypassed signal, the following settings work nicely for me (and feel good too):

Ratio: 20:1
Attack: 35ms
Release: 200ms
Lo X Freq: 400 Hz
Hi X Freq: 2.0 kHz
Level: +3.5dB
Lo Thresh: 0.0dB
Lo Gain: 0.0dB
Mid Thresh: -4.5dB
Mid Gain: 0.0dB
Hi Thresh: -34.0dB
Hi Gain: -2.0dB

Try it out!

Yep your basically using MultiBand compressor which is generally a post processing studio tool , but if it built in behind the scenes it would certainly explain why the NDSP could feel smoother and more mix ready