Helix Modeling Difference ... Pre and Post FW 1.06 ... (?)

BenIfin

BenIfin

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Hey all !

Just a general comment / observation / thought I've had for some time.

If I'm not mistaken (?) FW 1.06 saw the first of the post-Helix-Launch Amps added ...... the Matchless DC 30

To me and my ears ..... all the Amps that were in and followed FW 1.06 - always felt like there were in a different modeling quality league compared to the 38 or so "original" Helix Release Amps (?)

Rightly or wrongly (?) I have read similar comments from many other users across forums.

As such, I've always kind of assumed that the original batch of 38 were modeled a certain way ..... whereas the amps added from FW 1.06 have been modeled using better / more accurate / more refined techniques and methods (?)

Anyone else feel / hear things this way -or- am I just pissing into the modeling wind :)

Ben
 
I don’t know about an exact break point, but I’ve definitely noticed a difference between the oldest models and newer ones (especially ones since 3.0)… but it’s hard to eliminate any biases since I had been reading that there was a difference before I even tried a Helix product. I expect the Princeton to sound better than the Deluxe Reverb, etc

If there are differences, I’m curious where it comes from. As I understand it, the Helix amp blocks are mostly made up of instances of pre-defined components that are universal across blocks. So I wonder if any improvements come mainly from how the variables for those components are set and components are combined (maybe due to better measurements of source amps), from newer components that weren’t previously available for older models (which might explain a general improvement across newer models vs just some models being better), or from custom components on a per-amp basis.
 
I don't know either. If they changed something in the modeling process I'd be interested in what that would be. I guess the only proper way of investigating this would be to compare the 1.0 models against the real amp exemplars that Line6 used.

What I disagree with is the premise that post 1.0 models are in another league: there are a couple that I use more often than later added ones; the Voxes, the Sivertone and the Orange OR 80 come to mind.

My feeling is that this is more an issue of personal taste and choice of amps at Line 6 than modeling quality. For example there is a certain harshness in the Deluxe Reverb that I think come from a different coupling capacitor and less negative feedback than the smoother AxeFX Deluxe model that I compared it to.
 
Essex A30 > Matchstick models any day of the week. That reason right there makes the whole theory debunked in my eyes.
 
Weren’t the cabs redone around that time? That might explain why some think it is a change in the amp modeling but they are attributing the improvement to the wrong part of the equation? Some people are using the stock original cabs, some trying different cabs and some still using primarily third party cabs. So the consensus is not so focused.
 

A lot of people will disagree with my hardware modeler ranking

When I owned the QC, at first I found the effects OK, but not amazing. Definitely usable (except for the univ vibe :barf). I did love being able to capture my favourite oddball drives, that was amazing. But then I bought an HX One to supplement the QC, and it really made clear just how the L6...
thegearforum.com thegearforum.com

The current Helix Core modeling engine is from November 2022. It was further improved in November 2023. There will be further tweaks to the underlying engine this fall. Anyone implying Helix's engine is from 2015 hasn't been paying attention.
Click to expand...
 
DieSchmalle said:
What I disagree with is the premise that post 1.0 models are in another league: there are a couple that I use more often than later added ones; the Voxes, the Sivertone and the Orange OR 80 come to mind.
Click to expand...

Helix's SLO-100 was available on launch IIRC, and it's one of the best Soldano models i've tried to this day.
 
1724802706223.png
 
dean701 said:
this is the link I found for Helix release notes.
I can't find anything pre 1.06
Click to expand...

Took me a little while, but found the list of Helix launch amps:
  • WhoWatt 100 (Hiwatt DR-103 Brill)
  • Soup Pro (Supro S6616)
  • Stone Age 185 (Gibson EH-185)
  • Tweed Blues Nrm (Fender Bassman normal channel)
  • Tweed Blues Brt (Fender Bassman bright channel)
  • US Small Tweed (Fender Champ)
  • US Deluxe Nrm (Fender Deluxe Reverb normal channel)
  • US Deluxe Vib (Fender Deluxe Reverb vibrato channel)
  • US Double Nrm (Fender Twin Reverb normal channel)
  • US Double Vib (Fender Twin Reverb vibrato channel)
  • Mail Order Twin (Silvertone 1484)
  • Divided Duo (÷13 JRT 9/15)
  • Interstate Zed (Dr Z Route 66)
  • Jazz Rivet 120 (Roland JC-120 Jazz Chorus)
  • Essex A-15 (Vox AC-15)
  • Essex A-30 (Vox AC-30 top boost)
  • A-30 Fawn Nrm (Vox AC-30 Fawn normal channel)
  • A-30 Fawn Brt (Vox AC-30 Fawn bright channel)
  • Mandarin 80 (Orange OR80)
  • Brit J-45 Nrm (Marshall JTM-45 normal channel)
  • Brit J-45 Brt (Marshall JTM-45 bright channel)
  • Brit Plexi Nrm (Marshall Super Lead 100 normal channel)
  • Brit Plexi Brt (Marshall Super Lead 100 bright channel)
  • Brit Plexi Jump (Marshall Super Lead 100 jumped)
  • Brit P-75 Nrm (Park 75 normal channel)
  • Brit P-75 Brt (Park 75 bright channel)
  • Brit 2204 (Marshall JCM-800)
  • German Mahadeva (Bogner Shiva)
  • German Ubersonic (Bogner Überschall)
  • Cali Rectifire (MESA/Boogie Dual Rectifier)
  • ANGL Meteor (ENGL Fireball 100)
  • Solo Lead Clean (Soldano SLO-100 clean channel)
  • Solo Lead Crunch (Soldano SLO-100 crunch channel)
  • Solo Lead OD (Soldano SLO-100 overdrive channel)
  • PV Panama (Peavey 5150)
  • Line 6 Elektrik (Line 6 Original)
  • Line 6 Doom (Line 6 Original)
  • Line 6 Epic (Line 6 Original)
 
I was always under the impression that the original Helix models shared some lineage to the last iteration of the POD HD modeling.

I remember those amps POD HD model packs having the same names as the Helix amps: PV Panama, German Mahadeva, Remastered 2204, A30 Fawn, Mandarin 80.
 
Lysander said:
Took me a little while, but found the list of Helix launch amps:
  • WhoWatt 100 (Hiwatt DR-103 Brill)
  • Soup Pro (Supro S6616)
  • Stone Age 185 (Gibson EH-185)
  • Tweed Blues Nrm (Fender Bassman normal channel)
  • Tweed Blues Brt (Fender Bassman bright channel)
  • US Small Tweed (Fender Champ)
  • US Deluxe Nrm (Fender Deluxe Reverb normal channel)
  • US Deluxe Vib (Fender Deluxe Reverb vibrato channel)
  • US Double Nrm (Fender Twin Reverb normal channel)
  • US Double Vib (Fender Twin Reverb vibrato channel)
  • Mail Order Twin (Silvertone 1484)
  • Divided Duo (÷13 JRT 9/15)
  • Interstate Zed (Dr Z Route 66)
  • Jazz Rivet 120 (Roland JC-120 Jazz Chorus)
  • Essex A-15 (Vox AC-15)
  • Essex A-30 (Vox AC-30 top boost)
  • A-30 Fawn Nrm (Vox AC-30 Fawn normal channel)
  • A-30 Fawn Brt (Vox AC-30 Fawn bright channel)
  • Mandarin 80 (Orange OR80)
  • Brit J-45 Nrm (Marshall JTM-45 normal channel)
  • Brit J-45 Brt (Marshall JTM-45 bright channel)
  • Brit Plexi Nrm (Marshall Super Lead 100 normal channel)
  • Brit Plexi Brt (Marshall Super Lead 100 bright channel)
  • Brit Plexi Jump (Marshall Super Lead 100 jumped)
  • Brit P-75 Nrm (Park 75 normal channel)
  • Brit P-75 Brt (Park 75 bright channel)
  • Brit 2204 (Marshall JCM-800)
  • German Mahadeva (Bogner Shiva)
  • German Ubersonic (Bogner Überschall)
  • Cali Rectifire (MESA/Boogie Dual Rectifier)
  • ANGL Meteor (ENGL Fireball 100)
  • Solo Lead Clean (Soldano SLO-100 clean channel)
  • Solo Lead Crunch (Soldano SLO-100 crunch channel)
  • Solo Lead OD (Soldano SLO-100 overdrive channel)
  • PV Panama (Peavey 5150)
  • Line 6 Elektrik (Line 6 Original)
  • Line 6 Doom (Line 6 Original)
  • Line 6 Epic (Line 6 Original)
Click to expand...

Kinda mad looking back at that. There's actually very little there that I use on Helix or that interests me, and I'm kinda surprised that I bought one back then!! I suppose I always had it as an effects-only unit in mind. But yeah, that initial list of amps is missing a lot of the good shit that Helix now has.

Once more, a shoutout to the Revv models, which are just POIFECT!
 
I’m not sure if the newer modeling is better or if I just like some of the newer amp selections better. Remembering how bad those early Marshall models were - it had more to do with the actual amps they picked than modeling technology.

I still think the HX Deluxe Reverb is one of the best modeled Deluxes I’ve played.
 
bikescene said:
I was always under the impression that the original Helix models shared some lineage to the last iteration of the POD HD modeling.

I remember those amps POD HD model packs having the same names as the Helix amps: PV Panama, German Mahadeva, Remastered 2204, A30 Fawn, Mandarin 80.
Click to expand...
About that, this was a poor decision by L6 to use the same names and the same parameters in the models (no bright caps, etc.), to me it did appear to be just an updated Pod HD when I bought my Helix in 2020.
Just another thing to add to the pile of "Helix is old AF".

Hopefully the next flagship (if ever) will be a true update from the "POD HD". :LOL:
 
pipelineaudio said:
Holy wow, the Angl Meteor was there from day one? It was the eventual amp I settled on before Tonex
Click to expand...
Meteor is still an amazing amp. Even back in the ol HD500 they nailed it. Sometimes, when I was bored, before kids, I went to the ENGL site, searched for the FB100 manual and tried all these different sound examples the FB100 amp designer put into the manual. Just rocks/metals. An the mid boost is like the best mid boost for solos I have ever encountered.
 
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