What have you learned from digital modeling?
- Thread starter EOengineer
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[Nathan]
Roadie
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This is an insanely prolific statement hahaha... for better or worse I might add
"Modelers basically forced guitar players to be (pseudo) audio engineers"
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Or at least:
"Modelers basically forced guitars players to be aware of things past their noses."
Exactly. I should have added "I hate that on so many levels".
That has never not been a thing. Unless you mean bad guitar players, than yeah, sure.
TheTrueZoltan!
Shredder
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I totally understand what you mean. That's exactly why I'm not a friend of Dyna-Cabs or similar cab implementations. Give me a handful of excellent IRs mixed by professionals and I'm happy.
Sascha Franck
Rock Star
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As far as being an "audio engineer" goes, I always had a sweet spot for all things digital. Or rather for all digital music devices. Using sequencers since Cubase 1.0, "modelers" since the infamous Zoom 9002 (so way before the POD came out), DAWs since the Atari Falcon (ok, that was a *very* short episode as it sucked beyond belief, went back to the ST in almost a heartbeat, so make that "DAWs since Cubase 3"), etc. Started to seriously use IRs for recordings when the first RedWirez pack came out (grabbing a DI signal from a speaker out).
I also started recording directly (as in using cab simulations) pretty early, had a H&K ATS MKII top which had their "Cream Machine" including a Red Box built in (before the Red Box was even available separately).
So maybe that's why I just get along well with all things modeling. At least IMO.
Btw, I owned larger amounts of analog amps and stuff in parallel all the time, most often I was using hybrid setups until making the final switch by replacing a Boogie MKIV (used as a pedal platform only anyway for some years already) with an Amplifirebox and some FR monitors (ok, there's been a pretty short intersection of using an old GT-10 and an AMT Pangaea). For me it has been a godsend as silent stages got more and more popular and I hated having to use different setups for those gigs. By now I prefer that setup for non-silent stages as well. Interestingly enough, after a Helix Floor interlude, the Amplifirebox is back as being my core pedal platform (will likely be retired somewhen in the next months, though), so that's over 6 years of getting good use out of that thing. And I'm basically still using the same hybrid setup, too.
I also started recording directly (as in using cab simulations) pretty early, had a H&K ATS MKII top which had their "Cream Machine" including a Red Box built in (before the Red Box was even available separately).
So maybe that's why I just get along well with all things modeling. At least IMO.
Btw, I owned larger amounts of analog amps and stuff in parallel all the time, most often I was using hybrid setups until making the final switch by replacing a Boogie MKIV (used as a pedal platform only anyway for some years already) with an Amplifirebox and some FR monitors (ok, there's been a pretty short intersection of using an old GT-10 and an AMT Pangaea). For me it has been a godsend as silent stages got more and more popular and I hated having to use different setups for those gigs. By now I prefer that setup for non-silent stages as well. Interestingly enough, after a Helix Floor interlude, the Amplifirebox is back as being my core pedal platform (will likely be retired somewhen in the next months, though), so that's over 6 years of getting good use out of that thing. And I'm basically still using the same hybrid setup, too.
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I wouldn't go that far. There was no forcing involved. Modelers were created for people that wanted a lot of options in a relatively small package, and for players that like to tweak and store presets. Tube amps, ss amps, are still being made so guitarists have many options that are simpler if needed. There are very simple modelers out there too, the Amped series comes to mind. So I don't think much has changed in the sense that you still have to build a sound for yourself. How simple or complicated is up to you.
ian_dissonance
Roadie
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This is a net positive for me as someone who does studio and live sound from time to time. Modelers and IEM/tracks rigs have made people much more aware of the sum of the whole versus “guitar loud, guitar good, ungabunga” like the early 2ks.
We don’t ask the foh guy to shred.
HotRats
Roadie
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What have I learned from digital modeling?
I'd say nothing.
Undoubtedly digital modeling is a great tool that give me a lot of opportunities, as you expect from good technology, but I don't think I've really learned something new using a modeller.
Maybe I've "learned" I like/dislike some amps/pedals/effects I hadn't had the opportunity to try but honestly there are no tools I dislike, only tools I don't need/don't fit the music I'm currently into.
After all, tools are not teachers.
I'd say nothing.
Undoubtedly digital modeling is a great tool that give me a lot of opportunities, as you expect from good technology, but I don't think I've really learned something new using a modeller.
Maybe I've "learned" I like/dislike some amps/pedals/effects I hadn't had the opportunity to try but honestly there are no tools I dislike, only tools I don't need/don't fit the music I'm currently into.
After all, tools are not teachers.
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Man, I don't think it is healthy to blame gear (digital, analog, or hybrid) for our own
perceived limitations.
Apart from time and obligations to other priorities, there are literally ZERO obstacles
in our path.
I have lived long enough to know that excuse makers will always find reasons NOT to,
while the willing will not rest until they find what works.
perceived limitations.
Apart from time and obligations to other priorities, there are literally ZERO obstacles
in our path.
I have lived long enough to know that excuse makers will always find reasons NOT to,
while the willing will not rest until they find what works.
the swede
Shredder
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It’s ok to be a willing excuse maker?I have lived long enough to know that excuse makers will always find reasons NOT to,
while the willing will not rest until they find what works.
My back informed me I was no longer "A Tube Amp Guy" in my mid 40's (around 2013). At that time, I did extensive research and decided on a Kemper (Rack with foot controller).
It was not my thought at that time that the Kemper would be better than my VHT Ultralead or Fender Blackface. It was my thought that 13lbs is WAY lighter than a tube amp, a 4x12 slant cab, a 2x12 fat bottom cab, and a pedal board!
What I learned is that my FOH sound IS BETTER than a mic'ed tube amp AND it is more consistent. My shows go more smoothly, and my setup and breakdown time is greatly reduced. Additionally, the clutter around my feet is reduced, my rig is simplified and has way fewer failure points. All of this and it is a HUGE blessing to my back.
I now carry a small rack with my Kemper in it, a small hand bag with my Kemper foot controller and cables in it, and my guitar. I make a SINGLE trip from my car to stage, and from stage back to my car.
Don't get me wrong, there is something magical about a tube amp in a room with a big set of cab speakers setting your arm hairs on fire with your strings so alive they could reach out and grab you ..... but that doesn't work for anything be self amusement in the basement (and doesn't even work then if you have a wife with anything less that a Mother Teresa personality!).
I won't be going back ..... ever.
It was not my thought at that time that the Kemper would be better than my VHT Ultralead or Fender Blackface. It was my thought that 13lbs is WAY lighter than a tube amp, a 4x12 slant cab, a 2x12 fat bottom cab, and a pedal board!
What I learned is that my FOH sound IS BETTER than a mic'ed tube amp AND it is more consistent. My shows go more smoothly, and my setup and breakdown time is greatly reduced. Additionally, the clutter around my feet is reduced, my rig is simplified and has way fewer failure points. All of this and it is a HUGE blessing to my back.
I now carry a small rack with my Kemper in it, a small hand bag with my Kemper foot controller and cables in it, and my guitar. I make a SINGLE trip from my car to stage, and from stage back to my car.
Don't get me wrong, there is something magical about a tube amp in a room with a big set of cab speakers setting your arm hairs on fire with your strings so alive they could reach out and grab you ..... but that doesn't work for anything be self amusement in the basement (and doesn't even work then if you have a wife with anything less that a Mother Teresa personality!).
I won't be going back ..... ever.
Oh, and I have learned to love new amps that I had never even considered before! Case in point, JTM50 and Morgan AC20. Also learned I actually like Friedman better than Marshal! It is unlikely I would ever have gotten to play around with all these different physical amps without my Kemper.
Note, I still love my Mesa and VHT sounds and JCM800 and VOX AC30, and I have either owned or borrowed several of these physical amps in the past. Still, I wouldn't want to haul them all around to gigs!
Note, I still love my Mesa and VHT sounds and JCM800 and VOX AC30, and I have either owned or borrowed several of these physical amps in the past. Still, I wouldn't want to haul them all around to gigs!
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