From: Neural DSP, re: s o o n... (Archetype Tom Morello)

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I'm not a plugin guy, so what is Archetype anyways ? and why are these things so expensive ?
 
Stone said:
so what is Archetype anyways ? and why are these things so expensive ?
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They basically have 2 ranges of products:

- Officially licenced emulations (Mesa/Fortin/Soldano/Omega/Darkglass/Tone King etc)
- Archetype (signature plugins featuring rigs of an artist or band)

The official licensed stuff typically gives you all the modes and channels of an amp, or sometimes a variation of an amp (like the IIC+ and IIC++).

The Archetype's typically just have one channel for each amp that's included, and sometimes some modes or mods that may or may not be part of the original (e.g. just the 5150 Red channel in Nolly, and the 2203 having a bright switch and depth control).

Regarding price, they're not no brainer prices, but they do regularly have 50% off sales throughout the year (much like Nembrini or Plugin Alliance have sales on constantly). The list price is generally for people who can't wait, anyone who isn't desperate can pick it up for less later on. Usual plugin company bullshit that isn't unique to any one company. I think the prices are very much in line with other companies though - Nembrini list prices for a single amp with less features is $137, STL Tonality products are $120ish. I think we're kind of spoiled these days with whats available and for low prices. Even Softube who IMO typically charge a bit too much for their plugins has very low prices for their amp sims. I dont think we should use all in one products like Helix Native or Amplitube to gauge what is reasonable value - those are INSANE value for money for what you get.
 
Stone said:
So Plugins are not Component modeling rather captures ?
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Neural’s approach for amp modelling doesn’t typically involve component modelling or schematics. They’re more like captures/profiles at all settings and modes on the amp with a GUI and pre-routed signal path.

The FX are modelled in the more traditional way AFAIK. Cab’s are just bog standard IR’s of varying quality. I always just use my own (as with any amp sim or modeller).
 
Stone said:
I'm not a plugin guy, so what is Archetype anyways ? and why are these things so expensive ?
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NDSP plug-ins are much more limited in their offerings but are really easy to use and get a good sound. They sell a collection of generally a couple amps, a couple speakers, a couple pedals, and a couple effects for $100-150.

I think if you do a lot of recording or if you only use a couple amps, they can be excellent plugins. I have several of them and you can get a killer tone in seconds dropped into a track.

But they lack versatility and you can’t use models from different plugin bundles together. You have to stack plug-ins which is a pain and possibly cpu hog.

When they do 50 percent off sales I tend to pick one up if I need it. Like I’ll probably get a bass plug-in at some point because I suck at dialing in bass tones with Helix Native.

Helix Native can do just about everything all in one just like Helix, but it can be harder to get a great tone easily, especially for high gain stuff.
 
I definitely understand the perception that this stuff is expensive, but having made shitloads of profiles/IR's/ToneX models and now NAM captures over the years, its really a dull and tedious amount of work. To have it into a fully fledged product with a UI and extras, as well as proper support across different formats, I'd rather just buy a plugin for £50 or so than do all that work.

Absolutely amazing what people are willing to put their time and effort towards to give away for free, and theres more excellent free+affordable options than ever. Its really not a fun or enjoyable process to do thoroughly and consistently and I really wouldn't have the motivation to give up my time like some others are prepared to.
 
metropolis_4 said:
Maybe I’m wrong, but I always got the sense that De La Rocha believed in the message, and Morello was just along for the ride
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I don't think you're wrong. Even though I'm diametrically opposed to their message, I respect De la Rocha because he at least by appearances, walks the walk. Morello seems to me to be more interested in seeming to walk the walk because that's their schtick, while taking every opportunity to capitalize on it.
 
metropolis_4 said:
Maybe I’m wrong, but I always got the sense that De La Rocha believed in the message, and Morello was just along for the ride
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I think Tom legit believes in the politics/message, but he's more than happy to dip his toes into the entrepreneurial world. I'm not sure if that makes him a hypocrite or not.

One of the reasons I never got full into RATM is the lyrics. I don't share those views and it can be cringey. But I had enough of a punk rock attitude at least as a kid to get into some of it, and the music was pretty awesome.

I guess I chose to believe I was raging against a different machine :grin

I've said it before, but I met Tom after the second ever Audioslave show at a meet and greet. I was really excited to meet Chris but he got spooked by this super annoying and overbearing DJ lady and he bailed out the back. Tom was super nice, gracious, and seemed absolutely genuine. Like he fully appreciated everyone coming out and took the time to sign stuff and talk to each of us.

He absolutely ripped too, I was shocked. I didn't think much of him as a guitarist beforehand but he was an awesome showman and could play his ass off. The show was awesome and obviously Chris was a rock god and killed it. And the drummer was probably the loudest and hardest hitting drummer I've ever seen. I lost a little bit of hearing after that show it was so loud (in my young and dumb days).
 
Jarick said:
I think Tom legit believes in the politics/message, but he's more than happy to dip his toes into the entrepreneurial world. I'm not sure if that makes him a hypocrite or not.

One of the reasons I never got full into RATM is the lyrics. I don't share those views and it can be cringey. But I had enough of a punk rock attitude at least as a kid to get into some of it, and the music was pretty awesome.

I guess I chose to believe I was raging against a different machine :grin

I've said it before, but I met Tom after the second ever Audioslave show at a meet and greet. I was really excited to meet Chris but he got spooked by this super annoying and overbearing DJ lady and he bailed out the back. Tom was super nice, gracious, and seemed absolutely genuine. Like he fully appreciated everyone coming out and took the time to sign stuff and talk to each of us.

He absolutely ripped too, I was shocked. I didn't think much of him as a guitarist beforehand but he was an awesome showman and could play his ass off. The show was awesome and obviously Chris was a rock god and killed it. And the drummer was probably the loudest and hardest hitting drummer I've ever seen. I lost a little bit of hearing after that show it was so loud (in my young and dumb days).
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Saying one thing and doing the opposite is the definition of hypocrisy.
 
What NDSP don't realize is they are over saturating themselves out of relevancy with those archetype plugins, hype marketing and cash grabs.
Very much like a music genre that quickly fades out of popularity, say 80s Disco or early 00's Emo, people get sick of force feeding.
 
James Freeman said:
What NDSP don't realize is they are over saturating themselves out of relevancy with those archetype plugins, hype marketing and cash grabs.
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I don’t think they’ve reached the tipping point entirely, but there is definitely a point where there is so much overlap that none of them become that unique. Each plug-in, in theory, makes the next one slightly less necessary.

This is why I don’t think a Neural “suite” is in their immediate plans though. Without these being siloed, what exactly would you being buying in Morello beyond adding one amp and one cab in said suite for $120?

I still think the endgame for Neural is a Neural Native type subscription service, where they unify all their content (QC and Plug) but on two platforms. (QC and Computer) They’ve dropped one new amp in 10 months on the QC and released three plugins in the same timeframe. They don’t have the ability to aggressively develop content on both, they’ll inevitably need to unify their content and just have people pay for the delivery method. (QC or Neural Native)
 
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