Fractal Talk

[yek]

I think the fact that they still have sufficient overhead might bode well for the FMseries ..

What's I will say is what a simply crazy amount of development in the last 6 weeks , just to recap things blocks that had updated ,completely redone and or new types added

- the amp block
- the compressor block
- drive block
- the phaser block
- the tremolo block
- the cab block
-the multiap flex delay blocks and delay blocks
- the reverb block

in fact it probably easier to name the blocks that he did not touch
He never sleeps

Poor Vocoder is the neglected child (and almost an adult by now).


j/k

 

[GTR37]

There’s an openness in this clip that I associate more with the older HBE C45 model. The newer models sound darker and denser in the mids. Especially with a TS up front. The soundcloud clip I posted is using a V30 and Greenback mixed together, both in the same Mesa 4x12 with a 57 and 421 on both speakers. That part of my signal chain is not dark for sure, especially considering the fact that I have to dial down the presence on most amps. The CCV 2B is my current favourite to get these tones tho. With a high-ish MV and low input trim, it sounds a lot like the open and raw tone in the clip you posted!

A few guy in prior firmwares had taken the HBE changed the tonestack to Plexi and it actually worked quite well to open it up at least from the clips I heard

 

[saarangnarayan]

A few guy in prior firmwares had taken the HBE changed the tonestack to Plexi and it actually worked quite well to open it up at least from the clips I heard

I've tried it, too. Doesn't quite do the trick for me unfortunately!

 

[Jarick]

Thanks for the heads up!

Checked out the new FW and it’s not the changes I was hoping to see. But that’s fine because what I want done is more in line with a FAS model than an “accurate” Friedman BE100. I did a super quick A/B with the Ares HBE C45 and the latest HBE C45 at the same settings and the results are VERY different. Almost like two different amps at this point:



First one is the Ares HBE and the second one is the latest version.

EDIT: fixed the link.

How did you run the Ares model for the HBE? That's just crazy different tonally.

I also used to absolutely love the Friedmans in the Fractal but couldn't get along with them as well on the current generation.

Right now I'm really enjoying running Marshalls with the bright cap off, either the Plexi Treble channel with no cap or right now trying to new Studio 800 with no cap. That seems to solve a lot of my Marshall issues but really only for the low to mid gain side.

 

[la szum]

Yeah I’ve been experimenting with placement of the GE-7 both before and after. It makes a fantastic boost in front of drives because you can fine tune which frequencies are boosting!

The only problem is I’ve found about a hundred different settings I want to use… I might have to look into an EQ-200, but I’m not sure what it sounds like compared to the GE-7

Or, at least 2 GE-7s.

I may have been looking at fancy programmable EQs as well.

Some of them are really cool. I mean... EQ is really the ultimate tone-shaping
tool, isn't it? It surpasses ODs and Boosts and all the rest.

Kind of essential in big ensembles. I have found the precision of fitting into a
dense mix very vital. Like the more instruments the more precise we need to
be with shaping out tone.... using EQ.

 

[la szum]

I’d be pretty fucking stoked with some Jose mod options!!! It’s fun DIY’ing it, but I’m not knowledgeable enough with amps to do more than turn on the Saturation switch and then start turning knobs until something cool happens. Having Jose ‘presets’ like we have the boosts in the amp block would be pretty damn cool.

Maybe dive into the Friedman BE-100 Preamp and Poweramp settings in the Fractlaverse
for fun. A lot of Dave's "innovations" as @paisleywookiee has pointed out on here are
just Jose mods turned into toggles/switches on the Friedman big boy amp.

 

[la szum]

A few guy in prior firmwares had taken the HBE changed the tonestack to Plexi and it actually worked quite well to open it up at least from the clips I heard

Yeah, makes sense that you have to un-Friedman the Friedman.

 

[la szum]

 

[Stone]

Thanks for the heads up!

Checked out the new FW and it’s not the changes I was hoping to see. But that’s fine because what I want done is more in line with a FAS model than an “accurate” Friedman BE100. I did a super quick A/B with the Ares HBE C45 and the latest HBE C45 at the same settings and the results are VERY different. Almost like two different amps at this point:



First one is the Ares HBE and the second one is the latest version.

EDIT: fixed the link.

Yes but cant that all be replicated using the Parameters in the Fractal to make it sound Like Ares if thats what one prefers ?
I mean we have so many options to change the tone to whatever pleases us and out ears

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Thanks for the heads up!

Checked out the new FW and it’s not the changes I was hoping to see. But that’s fine because what I want done is more in line with a FAS model than an “accurate” Friedman BE100. I did a super quick A/B with the Ares HBE C45 and the latest HBE C45 at the same settings and the results are VERY different. Almost like two different amps at this point:



First one is the Ares HBE and the second one is the latest version.

EDIT: fixed the link.

I'm sure you could get way closer with a few small tweaks to the settings on the 2nd one. Crank the presence, increase the bright cap value, MAYBE trim some low end. I think if it's dialled in better it can sound way better than the 1st clip, IMO it has too much low end shaved off and sounds a bit twangy/lacking chug. Brightening the second one up and possibly tightening it up if it's too loose/thick.

Happy to try and help if you don't mind sending the DI and IR for the clip (and old model audio as a ref)

 

[norminal]

Whaaat? A new Marshall model?

 

[jellodog]

Loving this firmware 28.

Every time I go around the block trying all the amps, I end up back at the JTM45 warts and all.

Sure, it has it's issues, but there's just something exciting about it.

Also: CC Boost cures all ills

 

[Stone]

Wonder how long till it comes to FM9

 

[ᛗᛜᛜᚺDᛜᎶ Ꮤᛨᚳᚴ]

Wonder how long till it comes to FM9

Soon!

 

[GTR37]

Wonder how long till it comes to FM9

Friday perhaps

 

[saarangnarayan]

How did you run the Ares model for the HBE? That's just crazy different tonally.

Installed the older firmware and recorded the clip!

I also used to absolutely love the Friedmans in the Fractal but couldn't get along with them as well on the current generation.

That’s my gripe as well. They were differently modelled in the preamp in those firmwares. Which is why I’d love to see a FAS model of those idealised Friedman models, especially the HBE C45.

Yes but cant that all be replicated using the Parameters in the Fractal to make it sound Like Ares if thats what one prefers ?

I'm sure you could get way closer with a few small tweaks to the settings on the 2nd one. Crank the presence, increase the bright cap value, MAYBE trim some low end. I think if it's dialled in better it can sound way better than the 1st clip, IMO it has too much low end shaved off and sounds a bit twangy/lacking chug. Brightening the second one up and possibly tightening it up if it's too loose/thick.

There are quite a few mods I’ve tried. I’ve basically messed with every parameter and it simply CANNOT do that older tighter, meaner sound as Cliff confirmed this in an earlier post (#2874) that the older models had the gain pot earlier in the circuit, which made the attack on the Friedmans completely different. There’s also the fact that the input EQ is vastly different in the new models compared to the Ares models. Though one can apply older values to that, it still sounds quite different. I did a whole thread about it on the FAS forum a while ago.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

There are quite a few mods I’ve tried. I’ve basically messed with every parameter and it simply CANNOT do that older tighter, meaner sound as Cliff confirmed this in an earlier post (#2874) that the older models had the gain pot earlier in the circuit, which made the attack on the Friedmans completely different. There’s also the fact that the input EQ is vastly different in the new models compared to the Ares models. Though one can apply older values to that, it still sounds quite different. I did a whole thread about it on the FAS forum a while ago.

I’m not saying it’ll be exact, but surely that clip you posted isn’t the limit of how close you can get them either?

I haven’t checked the schematic for a while, but is HBE mode not the same as BE mode but with a gain stage added in front? Another option could be to use BE mode and add your own gain stage.

I’d be interested in seeing how close I can dial things if you’re up for it. I don’t have access to the old model here so the only way I can try is by using your clips though.

 

[saarangnarayan]

I’m not saying it’ll be exact, but surely that clip you posted isn’t the limit of how close you can get them either?

I haven’t checked the schematic for a while, but is HBE mode not the same as BE mode but with a gain stage added in front? Another option could be to use BE mode and add your own gain stage.

I’d be interested in seeing how close I can dial things if you’re up for it. I don’t have access to the old model here so the only way I can try is by using your clips though.

I’ll send you some files later today.

I did dial in the new Firmware to get as close as possible to the older one by doing all the tweaks to the advanced parameters that would stiffen the amp up. The most effective tweak was of course the tonestack change but it still didn’t address the bloated low-mids and the missing “clang” in the upper mids that the older model had. The best I can say is that it sounds more like the Revv generator purple models with all the tweaks, but I don’t like the Revv models for the same reasons as I don’t jive with the tweaked HBE C45. As I stated somewhere (IIRC, on the request for the idealised FAS version I made on the FAS forum), more than the EQ, it is a compression and attack thing. While there are workarounds with the EQ, I haven’t found a convincing tweak that would get the attack to where it was in earlier firmwares.

 

[laxu]

Thanks for the heads up!

Checked out the new FW and it’s not the changes I was hoping to see. But that’s fine because what I want done is more in line with a FAS model than an “accurate” Friedman BE100. I did a super quick A/B with the Ares HBE C45 and the latest HBE C45 at the same settings and the results are VERY different. Almost like two different amps at this point:



First one is the Ares HBE and the second one is the latest version.

EDIT: fixed the link.

Listening to the clip, if I quickly roll up the output volume on my audio interface for the latest fw clip, they start to sound a lot more alike. The latest one is a bit smoother, with more low end.

I'd imagine you could dial that by just raising e.g presence/treble and rolling off the low end or using a parametric/graphic EQ.

But if that doesn't do it, I'd just try one of the many other modded Marshall models in the Axe-Fx. See if e.g the Cameron or Cornford models are more to your liking.

 

[saarangnarayan]

I'd just try one of the many other modded Marshall models in the Axe-Fx. See if e.g the Cameron or Cornford models are more to your liking.

That's exactly what I've been doing; the CCV 2B has been my main amp for over two years now!