Fractal Talk

[norminal]

 

[DrewJD82]

Saw a recent Henning vid where he said he filmed a ton of Fractal content and listed off every device, so I’d anticipate some more from him.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Saw a recent Henning vid where he said he filmed a ton of Fractal content and listed off every device, so I’d anticipate some more from him.

The vid Zed posted is part 1 of 6.

 

[OrganicZed]

RTFM!!!!

You beat me to the punch!

In all seriousness, I have read the Axe-Fx III manual and blocks guide cover to cover around five times each. They contain a wealth of good information.

 

[JiveTurkey]

My motto: NRTFM

 

[Rock Chalk]

You beat me to the punch!

In all seriousness, I have read the Axe-Fx III manual and blocks guide cover to cover around five times each. They contain a wealth of good information.

The thing is, even though I know the manual holds the keys to everything, I only look at it when I'm stuck......

 

[JoeBfstplk]

Honestly, these two changes would annoy the crap out of me. I don’t want either of these

Me too.

Think about DynaCabs. Is it going to try to pick mics and settings for me too? If so it will most likely pick something different from what I want and that means I’ll have even more I have to change to get it to what I want than if it had just left everything alone and let me change what I want.

This^^^. 100% this^^^.
Thankfully, you can set the auto picking to 'Off'.

For the Legacy IRs, it'd be nice if -Edit maintained a couple of small tables of metadata about the amp models and Factory IRs, which could be msny->many linked so when you pick an amp, the IR picker window could have a 'Suggested' filter you could switch on that would narrow down the list to good choices for that amp....

 

[laxu]

For the Legacy IRs, it'd be nice if -Edit maintained a couple of small tables of metadata about the amp models and Factory IRs, which could be many->many linked so when you pick an amp, the IR picker window could have a 'Suggested' filter you could switch on that would narrow down the list to good choices for that amp....

That would be a good feature. The filters on the onboard UI suck when they can't even determine if the bank of IRs contains a particular cab type (e.g lets you filter by 1x10 when there are only 4x12s in the bank...), so not expecting much from Fractal here.

Lots of data to assemble and test drive tho.

I expect for next gen it'll be Dyna-Cabs only with only user IR banks, so it could suggest different Dyna-Cabs.

 

[metropolis_4]

We're talking about starting points here. There's never going to be something that pleases everyone, but you can try to cover most users just to make it easier for them to get going. Most Fractal time effects for example come with a sensible starting setting where you only have to adjust mix a bit to get a good sound.

Think that you are someone who just bought the FM3 and wants to get started making their own presets. I'd say most users are going to have some form of IN1 - Amp - Cab - OUT1 preset, with a variety of fx around it. To me the whole adding shunts and adding utility blocks is rather unnecessary.

The Hotone Ampero 2 offers templates for routing which you can quickly swap and it will rearrange whatever blocks are in the preset into that routing. That's most routing scenarios covered with a couple of taps, instead of painstakingly adding shunts, or having to reconnect things if you move a block. Granted, the Hotone, like Helix, is way more fixed in its routing options.

The Hotone also has a toggle in its options for making the cab block track the amp block. If I pick a Marshall, it picks a suitable 4x12 Check cab for it. Pick a Mesa? 4x12 Recto and so on. This works more than well enough if people just want to quickly find a "works pretty well for this amp" cab to go with it. Prefer something else? Just turn off the option. While I wish this feature was part of the Cab block for easy toggling (instead of a global option which is a bit buried), it's an alright way to do it.

Like Henning said, most newcomers won't know what cab goes well with what, so having some curated suggestions coming from the maker of the modeler is not a bad thing to have.

Obviously being able to pick your own defaults when just loading in the effect is something that would be nice. I'd e.g load the Plexi 100 Jump at my favorite settings when I add an Amp block, a 4x12 1960TV cab with a good mic placement when I add a Cab block, a London Plate when adding Reverb etc. Atm you have to load those separately from saved favorites. Fine, it's just a few clicks on the editor...but impossible on the onboard UI.

The problem with that is it’s going to annoy experienced users for the sake of hand-holding new users.

Think about a website where after creating your account and logging in the first time you see a tour of site functionality.

That’s going to be really helpful the first time, but imagine how annoying it would be if it keeps showing it to you every single time you log in

 

[JoeBfstplk]

We're talking about starting points here. There's never going to be something that pleases everyone, but you can try to cover most users just to make it easier for them to get going. Most Fractal time effects for example come with a sensible starting setting where you only have to adjust mix a bit to get a good sound.

Think that you are someone who just bought the FM3 and wants to get started making their own presets. I'd say most users are going to have some form of IN1 - Amp - Cab - OUT1 preset, with a variety of fx around it. To me the whole adding shunts and adding utility blocks is rather unnecessary.

What would really help is being able to insert a block in a row in `-Edit`, and lasso or `Cmd-Click` a group of blocs and move them as a group. If `-Edit` gave us those capabilities, I could get behind presets having the optional capability of being pre-filled with the basic `Input 1->Amp 1->Cab 1->Output 1` starting point.

The Hotone Ampero 2 offers templates for routing which you can quickly swap and it will rearrange whatever blocks are in the preset into that routing. That's most routing scenarios covered with a couple of taps, instead of painstakingly adding shunts, or having to reconnect things if you move a block. Granted, the Hotone, like Helix, is way more fixed in its routing options.

The Hotone also has a toggle in its options for making the cab block track the amp block. If I pick a Marshall, it picks a suitable 4x12 Check cab for it. Pick a Mesa? 4x12 Recto and so on. This works more than well enough if people just want to quickly find a "works pretty well for this amp" cab to go with it. Prefer something else? Just turn off the option. While I wish this feature was part of the Cab block for easy toggling (instead of a global option which is a bit buried), it's an alright way to do it.

This would be great in `-Edit` as a "pull" feature instead of a "push" feature. I don't know anyone who likes pushy people or pushy 'nanny' applications. Offer help, don't force it on them. This is ground into folks who work with the disabled (I did years ago), so that you don't takecaway their dignity, offer help but don't force it except in an obvious emergency situation (person about to fall, or otherwise come into harm's way).

Put a "Suggestions" button to have `-Edit` filter the IR picker window and give some good ideas, based on the amp feeding the cab. If two Amp blocks precede a single Cab block, make the filter do a union join on the suggestions from the two amp blocks' chosen models....

 

[dk_ace]

I’ve been using the fm9 for months and didn’t know you could move through models with the edit button and I have no clue what the “knob double click shortcuts” are…. Sounds like I can learn a few things that will make it easier to navigate…

D

 

[norminal]

didn’t know you could move through models with the edit button

Pressing the Edit button repeatedly cycles through the Blocks on the grid.

 

[JoeBfstplk]

The problem with that is it’s going to annoy experienced users for the sake of hand-holding new users.

That’s why you offer help rather than just give it. Pull vs. Push. Opt-in as much as possible (i.e., a button with the help/suggestions), and a global Opt-out where necessary (i.e., a setting to start with a bare preset or one pre-filled with input, amp, cab, and output blocks).

Think about a website where after creating your account and logging in the first time you see a tour of site functionality.

Great example. Even the first time, those are frequently annoying AF.

 

[JoeBfstplk]

I’ve been using the fm9 for months and didn’t know you could move through models with the edit button and I have no clue what the “knob double click shortcuts” are…. Sounds like I can learn a few things that will make it easier to navigate…

D

I use -Edit as much as possible.

The FM-9 is all the way down there on the floor. I'm 59 and I don't get down on the floor without a solid plan in place for getting back up.

 

[la szum]

Going outside my comfort zone and dialing in a sweet EVH Stealth 100watt Blue Preset.

 

[dk_ace]

I use -Edit as much as possible.

The FM-9 is all the way down there on the floor. I'm 59 and I don't get down on the floor without a solid plan in place for getting back up.

I only edit on the unit at a gig or rehearsal, but thats when time is especially valuable so if I can find ways to do it faster that would be great.

I get around the clunkiness of editing on the unit by taking advantage of the awesome foot switching. I’ve got a couple levels of volume boost available on switches instead of needing to turn a patch or scene up. Lots of delay and reverb options on switches, lots of gain options, mods, etc all footswitchable. The goal is to never need to touch the unit other than quickly saving something I changed in a preset scene with footswitches.

For the most part, this works. I do occasionally find myself needing to adjust something using the menus and buttons though. I’m not very fast at it though and it’s usually a little stressful…

D

 

[toneseeker911]

You beat me to the punch!

In all seriousness, I have read the Axe-Fx III manual and blocks guide cover to cover around five times each. They contain a wealth of good information.

They do. But the unit’s UI requires constant practice to remember how to do things quickly. I remember reading about the edit button but forgot it somewhere along the way.
For a gig, that means rehearse your songs and then practice editing on the front panel

 

[KHAAAAAAANNNNNNN!!!!!!!!]

Thanks for the heads up!

I think Henning raises some good points.

I like his idea that the onboard modeler should offer favorites (and even groups of favorites like "my metal stuff" or "my blues stuff") so you can have your favorite amps, reverbs and whatnot front and center, and cram the rest somewhere out of the way. Like there's plenty of models on any modeler that I never used in every category. Some might not sound good, some I just don't care for and so on.

The guy operating it doesn't know the double-click knob shortcuts... I think he tries his best, and mostly knows what to do, but seeing that UI operated just highlights how cumbersome it is to work with. You very rarely see it in action like this because everyone uses Axe-Edit because it's easier to use (and record with screen capture).

Even worse it highlights all the bad stuff like:

• Why can't an empty preset come with IN1 -> OUT1 routed by default? That's like 90% of usecases. Yeah, you can save those empty presets like that and it's done, but it could come like that just out of convenience, and to remove some confusion for new users.
• Why can't it pick a default cab based on the amp model selected? Or at least some sensible default instead of the first legacy IR 1x4 Pig, even with the great Dyna-Cabs right there?
• Why can't you get a list of block types when adding blocks in Layout? Scrolling through them one by one is super dumb.

And many more. It's all these little "Eh, it works well enough" low hanging fruit that Fractal could fix instead of adding amp model 329, but they just put zero priority on it. That's why they need a user experience and user interface guy, someone who is passionate enough to get that stuff fixed.

I'm honestly not impressed with some of their choices on the VP4 user interface. Like you didn't plan for users wanting to reorder the blocks? Or maybe people wanting to quickly go from block to block to edit them instead of the enter-edit-exit-scroll-enter-edit-exit-scroll song that everyone hates with the Layout menu on the other units? Now any new usability features have to be shoehorned in with "just remember to hold this button, then do this other thing" that you have to learn instead of having it printed right on the unit.

That makes me worry about what their next gen box will be like, when they had a lot of existing feedback that they could have used developing the VP4 based on their existing platforms.

We're talking about starting points here. There's never going to be something that pleases everyone, but you can try to cover most users just to make it easier for them to get going. Most Fractal time effects for example come with a sensible starting setting where you only have to adjust mix a bit to get a good sound.

Think that you are someone who just bought the FM3 and wants to get started making their own presets. I'd say most users are going to have some form of IN1 - Amp - Cab - OUT1 preset, with a variety of fx around it. To me the whole adding shunts and adding utility blocks is rather unnecessary.

The Hotone Ampero 2 offers templates for routing which you can quickly swap and it will rearrange whatever blocks are in the preset into that routing. That's most routing scenarios covered with a couple of taps, instead of painstakingly adding shunts, or having to reconnect things if you move a block. Granted, the Hotone, like Helix, is way more fixed in its routing options.

The Hotone also has a toggle in its options for making the cab block track the amp block. If I pick a Marshall, it picks a suitable 4x12 Check cab for it. Pick a Mesa? 4x12 Recto and so on. This works more than well enough if people just want to quickly find a "works pretty well for this amp" cab to go with it. Prefer something else? Just turn off the option. While I wish this feature was part of the Cab block for easy toggling (instead of a global option which is a bit buried), it's an alright way to do it.

Like Henning said, most newcomers won't know what cab goes well with what, so having some curated suggestions coming from the maker of the modeler is not a bad thing to have.

Obviously being able to pick your own defaults when just loading in the effect is something that would be nice. I'd e.g load the Plexi 100 Jump at my favorite settings when I add an Amp block, a 4x12 1960TV cab with a good mic placement when I add a Cab block, a London Plate when adding Reverb etc. Atm you have to load those separately from saved favorites. Fine, it's just a few clicks on the editor...but impossible on the onboard UI.

 

[JoeBfstplk]

I only edit on the unit at a gig or rehearsal, but thats when time is especially valuable so if I can find ways to do it faster that would be great.

I get around the clunkiness of editing on the unit by taking advantage of the awesome foot switching. I’ve got a couple levels of volume boost available on switches instead of needing to turn a patch or scene up. Lots of delay and reverb options on switches, lots of gain options, mods, etc all footswitchable. The goal is to never need to touch the unit other than quickly saving something I changed in a preset scene with footswitches.

For the most part, this works. I do occasionally find myself needing to adjust something using the menus and buttons though. I’m not very fast at it though and it’s usually a little stressful…

D

Did you say, 'options'‽

 

[paisleywookiee]

I haven’t even downloaded the editor since I got my FM3.

A little time with the on device controls and it starts feeling pretty simple for the majority of tasks. A few things are still a pain

You must be REALLY good at MS Visio.

While I can understand if most of your presets are IN1->OUT2 or something you would wnat the first point, but why would you want the default cab to be the 1x4 Pig? Unless you use template presets then you have to change that every time you slap a cab block in, so I'd rather have some of the work done for me.

We're talking about starting points here. There's never going to be something that pleases everyone, but you can try to cover most users just to make it easier for them to get going. Most Fractal time effects for example come with a sensible starting setting where you only have to adjust mix a bit to get a good sound.

Think that you are someone who just bought the FM3 and wants to get started making their own presets. I'd say most users are going to have some form of IN1 - Amp - Cab - OUT1 preset, with a variety of fx around it. To me the whole adding shunts and adding utility blocks is rather unnecessary.

The Hotone Ampero 2 offers templates for routing which you can quickly swap and it will rearrange whatever blocks are in the preset into that routing. That's most routing scenarios covered with a couple of taps, instead of painstakingly adding shunts, or having to reconnect things if you move a block. Granted, the Hotone, like Helix, is way more fixed in its routing options.

The Hotone also has a toggle in its options for making the cab block track the amp block. If I pick a Marshall, it picks a suitable 4x12 Check cab for it. Pick a Mesa? 4x12 Recto and so on. This works more than well enough if people just want to quickly find a "works pretty well for this amp" cab to go with it. Prefer something else? Just turn off the option. While I wish this feature was part of the Cab block for easy toggling (instead of a global option which is a bit buried), it's an alright way to do it.

Like Henning said, most newcomers won't know what cab goes well with what, so having some curated suggestions coming from the maker of the modeler is not a bad thing to have.

Obviously being able to pick your own defaults when just loading in the effect is something that would be nice. I'd e.g load the Plexi 100 Jump at my favorite settings when I add an Amp block, a 4x12 1960TV cab with a good mic placement when I add a Cab block, a London Plate when adding Reverb etc. Atm you have to load those separately from saved favorites. Fine, it's just a few clicks on the editor...but impossible on the onboard UI.

I'm agreeing with Laxu a lot today, and that hurts. But only a little.

Did you say, 'options'‽