Fractal Talk

[Orvillain]

but in 20 years it would be frankly weird to think dedicated DSP processors will still be developed

People on gear forums have been saying this since 2008 at least.

 

[Stone]

Number 1 offender according to FAS is those clear see through computer cases with the leds
Inside

Yes along with the power supplies, they are of Switch mode types which generate a lot of EMI

 

[Stratzrus]

Just to understand your comment a little better, are you trying to say that let's say an M1 processor can push less flops through its bus than a dedicated DSP? Then how come nobody buys accelerators anymore except in few niche cases? There's definitely some design and practical considerations like board layouts being easier, existing codebase etc... But my comment is not "this week everyone changes over", that silly, but in 20 years it would be frankly weird to think dedicated DSP processors will still be developed, they won't have the market to justify the cost. Accumulators are not that hard to model with tensors which is what you end up having lots of in modern processors, and all very parallel.

I'm 100% unconvinced by his argument, because it's a strawman focused on the now, what I said is a simple truth if the computing market trends that are clear as day. Let's talk in 20 years and see how wrong I was?

 

[Anton Karelin]

@FractalAudio
Hi, Cliff. When will the FM3 USB latency when recording in the DAW be fixed?

 

[Stratzrus]

 

[FracKing]

Just to understand your comment a little better, are you trying to say [...]

Although I can see you are way more informed than me, my initial impression was that you might have been naive -- for example, like people sometimes making the argument how fast PC CPUs are nowadays.

I basically know from many years back what Cliff told here. For this audio application you need a real-time CPU (if I'm stating that right) that is as fast as possible, and that indeed more cores or chips add on latency.

So in a way you seemed to be saying, "look at these other fast cars now!" But they are not F1 -- it's a different thing.

If you are right about this, I guess this may be good news for the future. OTOH, I think Cliff said "never." Betting season is now open!

 

[DLC86]

Have you seen cases where it clearly is the cause?

I used to follow an EMF expert (RIP) whose wife was very electro sensitive.
It's only thanks to her that he discovered that sitting in line with a dish is doing something. He could not pick it up with any of his (IIRC) 40 devices, and he had all kinds, from very scientific to "alt science."

I would have been more worried about her mental health than the satellite dish.

If we are talking about satellite TV and not some military transmission system, a dish is just a reflective surface that concentrates the weak signal coming from a satellite into the LNB, which is the actual receiver placed at the focal point of the dish.
This doesn't emit any kind of signal, so a dish is actually more likely to "protect" someone sitting behind it from a range of EM frequencies... But I seriously doubt a human being could detect these

 

[SKU]

I would have been more worried about her mental health than the satellite dish.

If we are talking about satellite TV and not some military transmission system, a dish is just a reflective surface that concentrates the weak signal coming from a satellite into the LNB, which is the actual receiver placed at the focal point of the dish.
This doesn't emit any kind of signal, so a dish is actually more likely to "protect" someone sitting behind it from a range of EM frequencies... But I seriously doubt a human being could detect these

Yeah but the dish is oriented in the direction of the strongest signal

 

[DLC86]

Yeah but the dish is oriented in the direction of the strongest signal

And so?

 

[SKU]

And so?

And so if you put a hand on a piece of steak while it's strategically placed to absorb the most heat from the grill it's not the steak that's heating up your hand. It will even protect you.

 

[Orvillain]

He's not a troll. Luckymethod is a decent guy. He's just not quite on the mark with this. Stop calling people trolls. You silly sausage.

 

[DLC86]

And so if you put a hand on a piece of steak while it's strategically placed to absorb the most heat from the grill it's not the steak that's heating up your hand. It will even protect you.

Not the best analogy.
A better analogy would be using an umbrella to repair yourself from rain.
But you perceive rain cuz you can see it and you can feel it on your skin. Afaik humans don't have receptors for 950-2150 MHz radio signals.

And btw, in comparison to all other radio signals coming from the earth surface, would be like worrying about a few drops of rain while someone is watering you with a firefighter hose

 

[FracKing]

I would have been more worried about her mental health than the satellite dish.

Not me,, as I have followed and armchair researched it for many years. The guy was very blessed to have her, and many times he could measure things.
He was great on all aspects of it, science and alt science aspects. This kind of stuff is more known in Germany AFAIK, where he studied and shared on many forums too. This is making that many of his opinions are very interesting and different from all guys that have been popping up. OTOH, I like contrarians, so that can be a weakness sometimes.

The longitudinal waves he mentioned are an important aspect to much of this, but I forgot if these are even acknowledged by mainstream science. There's of course a wide area in alt science from New Age BS to things you can only wonder why it's swept under the rug. I suspect these longitudinal waves are still part of the latter? These are not EMF (and maybe not even waves, IIRC, or also called standing waves?), yet probably huge part of the problem.

People who think they can make an area EMF safe with the few tools they usually recommend are probably missing the biggest part of it (according to the guy)... Some of this can be illustrated by experiments inside Faraday cages. BTW, most people seem to think this shuts everything out, but they only think about EMF or certain bands and forget about longitudinal waves...

Some people need to be purely scientific for their work, but all others are missing out or throwing out the baby with the bathwater in this field, IMO. In ways alt science is more scientific, as it is less obstructed by dark agendas -- same for medicine, etc. The obvious scandals and cover-ups are huge in probably all fields.

Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if Cliff calls BS on longitudinal waves. It would be a welcome opinion, but it would not seal the deal for me. "I've seen too much," so to speak. Sure, there's always people producing BS based on any kind of knowledge/theories.

Another aspect may be that many shapes do influence things somehow. You probably heard about pyramid energy, but this goes for several shapes. Some of this can be illustrated or measured in (alt) science lore, some things not. IIRC, they use a different shape of pyramid in Russia for storage. I've read bits in Shape Power, for example.
amazon.com/Shape-Power-Dan-Davidson/dp/0962632155

 

[SKU]

Not the best analogy.
A better analogy would be using an umbrella to repair yourself from rain.
But you perceive rain cuz you can see it and you can feel it on your skin. Afaik humans don't have receptors for 950-2150 MHz radio signals.

And btw, in comparison to all other radio signals coming from the earth surface, would be like worrying about a few drops of rain while someone is watering you with a firefighter hose

I think what the guy meant was that the symptoms appeared when she happened to stay in line with the dish. Not that the dish itself was causing the symptoms but the orientation and position of the dish correlated with the symptoms when his wife was in line with it.
Have no idea if it was placebo or not but the guy was allegedly an EMF expert.

 

[FracKing]

the guy was allegedly an EMF expert.

I've actually kinda lost interest after he died, as he was one of a kind, IMO. And because I like contrarians, many of the others make me laugh or seem to have much less of the puzzle... Many just on board to sell earthing tools, etc., not getting into it deeply enough.

I think his name was Charles (Claessens) on that forum I shared, where you can check his opinions on all kinds of tools, etc.
One sad thing is that he became very bitter, as so many things he felt or knew to be proven could of course not persuade governments to improve things... That could make his personality somewhat of a turnoff in the latter years, but it must be incredibly frustrating after all...

Another interesting observation he made is that where there are tons of masts, the clashing signals can result in deadly new ones. He found a suspect number of deaths in his apartment block (on the opposite side of many antennas) and possible died because of this too... He did measure some of that, IIRC -- not "just a theory." To me it only makes sense.

 

[laxu]

I think what the guy meant was that the symptoms appeared when she happened to stay in line with the dish. Not that the dish itself was causing the symptoms but the orientation and position of the dish correlated with the symptoms when his wife was in line with it.
Have no idea if it was placebo or not but the guy was allegedly an EMF expert.

It's a case of people manifesting the symptoms themselves when they have a confirmation that aligns with their worldview. If that dish was not so obviously a dish but something that the person does not perceive as "thing that causes the issue", they would simply not experience it.

It's the same thing where Cliff could release fw 25.01 that says he "improved the flux capacitor modeling" despite not actually doing so, and people would go "yeah, I can totally hear the improved flux capacitor, it makes the amps sound thicker yet more open!"

We are basically able to fool ourself easily just because we believe something is true.

 

[DLC86]

Not that the dish itself was causing the symptoms but the orientation and position of the dish correlated with the symptoms when his wife was in line with it.

Again:

in comparison to all other radio signals coming from the earth surface, would be like worrying about a few drops of rain while someone is watering you with a firefighter hose

Do you think you'd detect that you have an umbrella above your head while someone is spraying you with a fireman hose from the side?

Not me,, as I have followed and armchair researched it for many years. The guy was very blessed to have her, and many times he could measure things.
He was great on all aspects of it, science and alt science aspects. This kind of stuff is more known in Germany AFAIK, where he studied and shared on many forums too. This is making that many of his opinions are very interesting and different from all guys that have been popping up. OTOH, I like contrarians, so that can be a weakness sometimes.

The longitudinal waves he mentioned are an important aspect to much of this, but I forgot if these are even acknowledged by mainstream science. There's of course a wide area in alt science from New Age BS to things you can only wonder why it's swept under the rug. I suspect these longitudinal waves are still part of the latter? These are not EMF (and maybe not even waves, IIRC, or also called standing waves?), yet probably huge part of the problem.

People who think they can make an area EMF safe with the few tools they usually recommend are probably missing the biggest part of it (according to the guy)... Some of this can be illustrated by experiments inside Faraday cages. BTW, most people seem to think this shuts everything out, but they only think about EMF or certain bands and forget about longitudinal waves...

Some people need to be purely scientific for their work, but all others are missing out or throwing out the baby with the bathwater in this field, IMO. In ways alt science is more scientific, as it is less obstructed by dark agendas -- same for medicine, etc. The obvious scandals and cover-ups are huge in probably all fields.

Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if Cliff calls BS on longitudinal waves. It would be a welcome opinion, but it would not seal the deal for me. "I've seen too much," so to speak. Sure, there's always people producing BS based on any kind of knowledge/theories.

Another aspect may be that many shapes do influence things somehow. You probably heard about pyramid energy, but this goes for several shapes. Some of this can be illustrated or measured in (alt) science lore, some things not. IIRC, they use a different shape of pyramid in Russia for storage. I've read bits in Shape Power, for example.
amazon.com/Shape-Power-Dan-Davidson/dp/0962632155

Longitudinal or transverse waves just indicates the movement of the medium on which the wave travels. Sound waves are longitudinal, sea waves and EM waves are mostly transverse.
But that doesn't change a thing about the efficacy of a Faraday cage.

I'll avoid replying to everything else cuz:
1. this is not the appropriate place to continue this kind of discussions.
2. I might say something offensive to someone

 

[SKU]

Again:

Do you think you'd detect that you have an umbrella above your head while someone is spraying you with a fireman hose from the side?

That's not the point. Your comment about the dish being a simple receiver was irrelevant to the idea presented here.

 

[SKU]

It's a case of people manifesting the symptoms themselves when they have a confirmation that aligns with their worldview. If that dish was not so obviously a dish but something that the person does not perceive as "thing that causes the issue", they would simply not experience it.

It's the same thing where Cliff could release fw 25.01 that says he "improved the flux capacitor modeling" despite not actually doing so, and people would go "yeah, I can totally hear the improved flux capacitor, it makes the amps sound thicker yet more open!"

We are basically able to fool ourself easily just because we believe something is true.

We would need far more information to come to a conclusion here. Could be what you're saying, could be something else.

 

[DLC86]

That's not the point. Your comment about the dish being a simple receiver was irrelevant to the idea presented here.

What's the point then? I don't get it, really