Fractal Audio Systems VP4 - Virtual Pedalboard

SonVolt said:
We need a YouTube influencer dedicated to reviewing the hardware of guitar effects. I asked a question here how the tech specs of the VP4 compared to the SDE-3000EVH and got a very vague response from Fractal. When I started asking specifics they bailed.
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Are you serious?
 
Shredder777 said:
I agree. But if a number of people say the VP4 is coloring their tone, I tend to believe them. They aren't idiots. Their experience is valid.
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Neither am I saying there isn't an issue here. I honestly don't know what's going on in the signal chains of people that aren't entirely satisfied.

But you seem so sure it's converters already, and we have no real factual evidence on this specific conversion subject yet.


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I'd personally like to see a higher standard of technical discourse concerning these experiences and few more facts.

The suggestion that FAS wouldn't choose well spec'd ADCs & DACs for their latest hardware, upon which their reputation depends, just isn't in keeping with their MO.
 
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yek said:
About expecting a company to provide technical details of comparisons with products from other companies, when a single customer asks for it.
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From Boss? No. From Fractal, or who is known for being very active and transparent with its community? Yes.
 
Shredder777 said:
Thats correct, there are many measures of audio quality, but greater dynamic range from better conversion usually goes hand in hand with lower noise floor and distortion.

There isn't some grand conspiracy. Inexpensive conversion had gotten *much* better over the last couple of years. Even cheap devices today can sound better than pro gear from a decade ago.

I have heard reports of fractal degrading signal quality when used in an amps loop. There are too many variables here and I dont own any fractal to comment on this. All I can say is that converter specs generally correlate with my perception of audio quality. Converter quality sets an upper bound for how good something can sound.

You can test this yourself. If you have a good 4k computer monitor from the past couple years route its audio to a mixer along side your interface output and AB between them. If your interface is 5 years or older you will probably find the monitor sounds better.
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Converter quality has not changed much in the last few years.

There are only two companies that people in the product space use: Cirrus and AKM. We use Cirrus, as do many other brands (Line 6, UAD, NDSP, Kemper IIRC). The VP4 uses the latest "flagship" products from Cirrus as do the Axe-Fx III and FM3/9. I wouldn't be surprised if the ToneX were using the same converters.

The only companies I know that use AKM are Headrush and Roland/Boss.

The only other company that makes a comparable product is ESS and they aren't found in MI products to my knowledge. They're typically used in Hi-Fi gear.

Both Cirrus and AKM suffered recent setbacks that delayed the introduction of new products. AKM had a factory fire and Cirrus' foundry shut down the fab line they were using. So both companies are basically on par as far as performance and product "newness".

Cirrus is coming out with some new parts soon that promise exceptional performance but these aren't in production yet.

Equally important, if not more so, is the analog path driving the A/D converter and buffering the D/A converter. We use premium components and a full-differential topology. Many companies use a single-ended topology as it is less expensive. Many companies also use low-cost op-amps (i.e. CMOS vs. the iPolar and BiFet parts we use).

You keep opining about our products but admit you've never owned or used one. Our products spare no expense on the converter quality and we are highly regarded in that respect.
 
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Shredder777 said:
Its all relative. When you are used to the latest gen of conversion, older devices become objectionable.

If people are saying some piece of gear is coloring their tone, I tend to believe them. But I can't be certain why.

I absolutely don't believe that because its a guitar signal chain that conversion doesn't matter. Everything matters: Conversion quality, latency, strength of cpu, sample rate, internal bit rate, etc. You have to take everything as a whole.

Maybe the VP4 has the most expensive and best sounding reverb algorithms in a pedal? But its also conceivable that some mainstream company is using better conversion, better audio design, and some people will notice that an inexpensive pedal has less affect on their signal chain, even if the reverbs sound shitty in comparison.
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Yes just keep analog dry for anything appropriate.
 
SonVolt said:
We need a YouTube influencer dedicated to reviewing the hardware of guitar effects. I asked a question here how the tech specs of the VP4 compared to the SDE-3000EVH and got a very vague response from Fractal. When I started asking specifics they bailed.

EDIT: I just realized I'm not on Fractal's forum.
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I have no idea what's inside that particular product so I can't comment on the components.

The published specs don't include any SNR or Dynamic Range specs so I can't compare.
 
FractalAudio said:
The only other company that makes a comparable product is ESS and they aren't found in MI products to my knowledge. They're typically used in Hi-Fi gear.
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Thanks for commenting on the subject of converters.

One small observation: I was shopping for a new audio interface last week and I noticed that ESS has started to show up in that segment.

For example the new SSL 2 MKII contains a 32 Bit / 192 kHz ESS AD/DA converter.
And the MOTU UltraLite-mk5 features the Sabre32 ES9026PRO DAC.
 
jellodog said:
Thanks for commenting on the subject of converters.

One small observation: I was shopping for a new audio interface last week and I noticed that ESS has started to show up in that segment.

For example the new SSL 2 MKII contains a 32 Bit / 192 kHz ESS AD/DA converter.
And the MOTU UltraLite-mk5 features the Sabre32 ES9026PRO DAC.
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They have good specs. Good to see them getting some design wins.

The "32-bit" thing still irks me but they're all doing it. There isn't a converter made whose dynamic range is greater than 21 bits.
 
FractalAudio said:
They have good specs. Good to see them getting some design wins.

The "32-bit" thing still irks me but they're all doing it. There isn't a converter made whose dynamic range is greater than 21 bits.
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Indeed. I admit that I was initially fooled by the 32-bit thing and totally reeled in.

I was excited at the prospect of 8 more bits being somehow... "obviously" better. just imagine the supreme quality of it all!

Then I looked into what that meant for digital audio in practical terms; and as you suggest, it's meaningless in real world use at present. Pure marketing BS.
 
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FractalAudio said:
They have good specs. Good to see them getting some design wins.

The "32-bit" thing still irks me but they're all doing it. There isn't a converter made whose dynamic range is greater than 21 bits.
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What specs are Cirrus claiming for their forthcoming products or is it too soon to say?
 
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