Fractal Audio Systems mystery product speculation

[JiveTurkey]

1. I don't know the solution for people who are tired of hearing it.

2. I don't know the solution for the people who are tired of using it.

Seems to be a standstill thst we probably won't ever get past.

 

[Achilles]

I wonder if a big part of the reason Fractal doesn't stress over the UI is that in theory you shouldn't be using it much.

Then why include so many variables that 99% of the public have no clue how they affect tone without first experimenting with them?

Raise you hand if you ever used a tube amp for more than a year without ever worrying about the bias setting.

 

[mbenigni]

I like to poke of course, but I can see both sides of the argument on this one. There are legitimates points being made and some people take it differently than others. None of this stuff deeply bothers me to be honest. We all like what we like.

My point is is simply that it’s not a zero sum game. Good tones and quality of life UI improvements are not mutually exclusive. Take your best in class modeler (arguably FAS), clean up the front end a bit. Insert why not both meme.

I get that the products as they stand today “are what they are”, pick your poison, etc. We’ve all done that already. But this is a chat forum about gear. Lo, we are chatting about gear.

 

[Mongillo19]

1. I don't know the solution for people who are tired of hearing it.

2. I don't know the solution for the people who are tired of using it.

Seems to be a standstill thst we probably won't ever get past.

 

[DrewJD82]

Samoyed?
I got one of those...

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Husky/Samoyed! It's like twice the fur of a usual husky or samoyed with all verbal whining of a husky!

 

[FuzzyAce]

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I so want to believe this really a pic of @JiveTurkey

 

[FuzzyAce]

Husky/Samoyed! It's like twice the fur of a usual husky or samoyed with all verbal whining of a husky!

When I was kid, an older lady/neighbor had 2 Samoyed and she'd knit stuff using their fur every year. I kid you not.

 

[Jarick]

A huge difference is Metallica tours with their own FOH team and sound techs who not only know what's needed for every song. They have hours to set up, sound check and tweak well before the band ever hits the stage.

Doesn’t Metallica have like Guitar and amp guys behind stage that are even controlling stuff per song? I mean that’s not really a fair comparison.

A poor excuse, not everyone is Metallica and I'm sure even them have their techs changing things from time to time. And seems that Edge started using the UAFX pedals because the easy to tweak things on the fly.

Then why include so many variables that 99% of the public have no clue how they affect tone without first experimenting with them?

Raise you hand if you ever used a tube amp for more than a year without ever worrying about the bias setting.

Guys...that's my entire point. Cliff isn't making the Fractal for people who are getting into amp modeling for the first time. He's making it for professional musicians who very likely are outsourcing the programming and setup (unless they're really detailed gear nerds).

 

[timbuck3]

I'm sure this has been mentioned multiple times already in this thread but it could be the LB-1. I remember that Cliff talked about this. Reactive load with cab modeling etc.

That’s what I said.. lb-2

 

[timbuck3]

I will agree that for tweaking things on the fly, the hierarchical and page based nature of the Axe is sometimes a bit of a ballache. But that is more or less what you always get when you have these kinds of parameter sets.

For the vast majority of people who just want to quickly assemble a chain of pre-effects, an amp, a cab, and then a chain of post-effects, the HW is pretty easy to use. No more difficult than the Helix I'd say.

Fractal are an easy target for forum UX "experts" with too much time on their hands.

Every gear choice is a question of pro's and cons, positives and negatives, benefits and limitations.

When you choose Fractal, you're getting the best amp simulation around, period. When you choose other brands, you're compromising on that, whether you can hear it or not.

With Fractal, I know I can design a delay tone that I have in my head. With other brands I know I am limited to the 4-10 parameters that they think I should be allowed to access. With other brands I know that if their digital delay sounds a certain way, or decays away at a certain rate, that I'm stuck with it. Whereas with Fractal I know I can mess with the EQ, the compander, the drive, and I can craft a delay tone that is exactly what I wanted. The downside of that is, I know it is going to take some time. I also know if I want to tweak it in the middle of a show, that it isn't going to be easy.

But I'd rather that that not be able to do it at all, or just be stuck with effect X on another platform. For example, the Helix Transistor Tape delay.... it is great... but sometimes I want to keep the general character of it, but tweak the tonality or frequency response - I want to make it darker or brighter or something - and there are limitations to what you can do inside the block. Let's not even pretend that Quad Cortex has anything remotely resembling a true tape delay sound. They all sound like shaped digital delays. Not the same thing at all.

TMP strangely enough does sound like it has great effects... but then you're back to shithouse amp modelling. Pro's and cons again.

I agree but just think how many more would but the fractal if it had a better gui. But then again fractal couldn’t handle the massive uptick in sales anyhow. So maybe the person who said it’s made for pro players is right and it keeps the sales numbers down to have a not so slick gui???

 

[timbuck3]

I am not pro so I guess I should consider a helix

 

[Whizzinby]

Cliff isn't making the Fractal for people who are getting into amp modeling for the first time.

Nobody discussing this here, is or was, using a modeler for the first time with FAS, to my knowledge.

He's making it for professional musicians who very likely are outsourcing the programming and setup (unless they're really detailed gear nerds).

These outsourced programmers are desirous of a UI that is difficult to use, and/or wouldn’t welcome improvements?


We are stretching to bizarre lengths, imo, to not just admit the UI is dated and needs to be improved.

 

[Achilles]

just admit the UI is dated and needs to be improved.

That's the only way it'll ever get done.

 

[metropolis_4]

I wonder if a big part of the reason Cliff doesn't stress over the UI is that in theory you shouldn't be using it much. Once the device is set up, you should be playing. I'm thinking of when I saw Metallica last weekend...the only pedals on the stage were the controllers for Kirk's wah. I doubt that they care what the UI is like because it's been programmed and set up, sounds really good, and works reliably.

Now the average consumers are different...and they span the range from "guy who used to program rack units in his sleep in the 80's" to "guy who won't touch anything other than the volume knob on his amp". That's where the units with touch screens and clean UI's give a big advantage. But I don't think that's much of a concern for Cliff. If he was worried about selling a lot of units he'd be focusing on hitting price points and having broader distribution.

I always say when it comes to UI there are two entirely different UIs to consider with modelers:

1. The UI for building/creating/programming

2. The UI for performing


People always complain about Fractal UI for #1 but it is amazing for #2.

QC UI for #1 is great, but its UI for #2 is terrible

Kemper UI for #1 is terrible, but its UI for #2 is amazing

Helix probably has the best balance between the two

 

[FuzzyAce]

That's the only way it'll ever get done.

Well y'all hurry and get it done before I'm ready to buy.

 

[Whizzinby]

Everyone agrees the FAS stuff sounds badass. Tonally it’s the best modeler in the business. Period. That doesn’t need to be mentioned discussing things that aren’t tone related.

And the “obviously you dudes didn’t program a 1987 VCR” talk only proves the point being discussed. It’s not 1987 and nobody (outside of some in this thread) want to program a VCR moving forward.

Fractal is fucking awesome. 95% of us in this thread own FAS products and have a rooting interest in their continued success. We don’t need to add these disclaimers to every post in the thread.

 

[Achilles]

2. The UI for performing

Fractal UI is amazing for #2

This makes no sense.

 

[metropolis_4]

This makes no sense.

Why not?

The user interface for performance

Fractal user interface for performance is amazing. The FC controllers are so flexible and powerful they make it so easy to perform very complex things live. Performance pages are great for fast easy access to important parameters, the I/O flexibility makes it easy to route everything how I need, even the led meters give me a great quick visual reference, and the always on tuner gives me the ability to do a quick tuning check without losing visibility of my preset.

Lots of really great tools for live performance

 

[Achilles]

Tonally it’s the best modeler in the business. Period.

Can't people make their points without having to add this type of hyperbolic crap?

 

[duzie]

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See @Cainer for more tone and UI issues from a Fractal lol