Fender Tone Master Pro: Episode IV - A New Hope

[JiveTurkey]

I think a big part of the current gear "problem" is we are focusing on things like "ecosystem" and "interface" when we should be focusing on "bowel-cleansing riffage"

 

[OrganicZed]

I think a big part of the current gear "problem" is we are focusing on things like "ecosystem" and "interface" when we should be focusing on "bowel-cleansing riffage"

 

[timbuck3]

I think a big part of the current gear "problem" is we are focusing on things like "ecosystem" and "interface" when we should be focusing on "bowel-cleansing riffage"

I just wonder sound and option wise what the TMP would give you over a fractal? I mean so the 5153 is updated. It’s only one high gain tone in the fractal you’ve got to choose from or so and you have more fenders to choose from and fender even supplies on the TMP at this point, wise the versatility is much greater with fractal so I wonder if the TMP came out without a touchscreen and more like a helix screen if people would still be that jazz about it

 

[MindCrime]

I just wonder sound and option wise what the TMP would give you over a fractal? I mean so the 5153 is updated. It’s only one high gain tone in the fractal you’ve got to choose from or so and you have more fenders to choose from and fender even supplies on the TMP at this point, wise the versatility is much greater with fractal so I wonder if the TMP came out without a touchscreen and more like a helix screen if people would still be that jazz about it

Fractal has been releasing products since 2015 - 9 YEARS ago (maybe longer)
Fender released the TMP in Oct 2023 - 10 MONTHS ago

But, we here at TGF thought you knew that. Hardly a fair comparison.

 

[timbuck3]

Fractal has been releasing products since 2015 - 9 YEARS ago (maybe longer)
Fender released the TMP in Oct 2023 - 10 MONTHS ago

But, we here at TGF thought you knew that. Hardly a fair comparison.

You could go back to release of cybertwin though and start from there

 

[MindCrime]

I just wonder sound and option wise what the TMP would give you over a fractal? I mean so the 5153 is updated. It’s only one high gain tone in the fractal you’ve got to choose from or so and you have more fenders to choose from and fender even supplies on the TMP at this point, wise the versatility is much greater with fractal so I wonder if the TMP came out without a touchscreen and more like a helix screen if people would still be that jazz about it

You could go back to release of cybertwin though and start from there

Who said anything about a discontinued product (Cyber Twin) ? YOU were the one who mentioned the TMP in your post...I thought the discussion was about current products...hardware that's in the market today.
The TMP has room for improvement of course. Guys like @GuitarJon , Ola , and Tim Pierce have shown there ARE usable tones in the TMP !

And I agree...

 

[timbuck3]

Who said anything about a discontinued product (Cyber Twin) ? YOU were the one who mentioned the TMP in your post...I thought the discussion was about current products...hardware that's in the market today.
The TMP has room for improvement of course. Guys like @GuitarJon , Ola , and Tim Pierce have shown there ARE usable tones in the TMP !

And I agree...

I meant that fender has been doing digital for while now they just didn’t start with the TMP one could argue they started back with the cyber twin? That was my point.

 

[MindCrime]

I meant that fender has been doing digital for while now they just didn’t start with the TMP one could argue they started back with the cyber twin? That was my point.

I'm fully aware of that. The point I was making was that the TMP is a new product/new design for the floor modeler market...from Fenders point of view.

 

[timbuck3]

I'm fully aware of that. The point I was making was that the TMP is a new product/new design for the floor modeler market...from Fenders point of view.

Yes but they already had their feet wet in modeling.. with this in mind I am kind of let down by how few fender amps are in it

 

[[Nathan]]

My ears are probably fried so posting here for some fresh hearing. I noticed while dialling in patches heaps of the amps had similar characteristics. Hard to say whether this is the amp modelling in general, their cab section in general or some combo of the above. I just reamped the same riff through the stock settings of a few high gain amps with the same tubescreamer/tmp cab (had to level match things in post).

My general question is does this seem about right flicking through those amps on those settings or does it seem a bit same samey? I already have some theories about their cab section because in general using IRs seems to open things up a bit (also flat out disabling the cab / running it through a pedal baby and real cab also sound much better). So I'm not sure if this is about right for this kind of test, if the amp modelling is causing this / if the cab section is causing this... but just doing this, all pretty same samey to me. Maybe with fresh ears tomorrow I'll hear it differently but figured it was worth posting and seeing what you think.

 

[Frodebro]

My ears are probably fried so posting here for some fresh hearing. I noticed while dialling in patches heaps of the amps had similar characteristics. Hard to say whether this is the amp modelling in general, their cab section in general or some combo of the above. I just reamped the same riff through the stock settings of a few high gain amps with the same tubescreamer/tmp cab (had to level match things in post).

My general question is does this seem about right flicking through those amps on those settings or does it seem a bit same samey? I already have some theories about their cab section because in general using IRs seems to open things up a bit (also flat out disabling the cab / running it through a pedal baby and real cab also sound much better). So I'm not sure if this is about right for this kind of test, if the amp modelling is causing this / if the cab section is causing this... but just doing this, all pretty same samey to me. Maybe with fresh ears tomorrow I'll hear it differently but figured it was worth posting and seeing what you think.

Running different amps through the same cab will do that to some extent, even with the actual amps. The speaker is the last thing in the chain and will leave its sonic fingerprint on everything.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

My ears are probably fried so posting here for some fresh hearing. I noticed while dialling in patches heaps of the amps had similar characteristics. Hard to say whether this is the amp modelling in general, their cab section in general or some combo of the above. I just reamped the same riff through the stock settings of a few high gain amps with the same tubescreamer/tmp cab (had to level match things in post).

My general question is does this seem about right flicking through those amps on those settings or does it seem a bit same samey? I already have some theories about their cab section because in general using IRs seems to open things up a bit (also flat out disabling the cab / running it through a pedal baby and real cab also sound much better). So I'm not sure if this is about right for this kind of test, if the amp modelling is causing this / if the cab section is causing this... but just doing this, all pretty same samey to me. Maybe with fresh ears tomorrow I'll hear it differently but figured it was worth posting and seeing what you think.

this sort of sounds to me like the EQ of the amps is changing but the character of the gain is the same (or very similar) throughout. I can think of some plugins that are like this too.

EDIT: sort of reminds me of Kemper or STL Tonehub etc, when you cycle through presets and they all have a similar quality to them even though the amp models can be vastly different.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Running different amps through the same cab will do that to some extent, even with the actual amps. The speaker is the last thing in the chain and will leave its sonic fingerprint on everything.

This.

And I also think that feeding all amps with a Tube Screamer will do some further evening out.
Apart from that, I found most amps used in the video to sound quite notably different, though. Defenitely different enough to justify their existance.

Personally, for me it's usually much more about how amps interact with the dynamics of my playing and how well their tonestacks work (because that'll save me from using an EQ or walking through too much cab options).

 

[[Nathan]]

this sort of sounds to me like the EQ of the amps is changing but the character of the gain is the same (or very similar) throughout. I can think of some plugins that are like this too

This is the kind of thing I was talking about. I guess the extremes are like the orange the dual rect and evh. The gain is a bit more similar than I’d expect

FWIW I do the same thing with my IRs leave an IR in an amp sim, typically chuck a tube screamer up front and then cycle different amps in a single suite or something like helix or amphub I’ll cycle amps in a single suite. Very used to doing things this way and generally speaking the gain sounds more distinct.

My ears could totally be fried been jamming all day. Ill do similar in helix tomorrow and mess around with IRs instead of their cab block as well

 

[Sascha Franck]

Let's face it, especially in the high gain realm, overdriven sounds start kind of lose their identity and it's much more about the used cabs and maybe the amp's tightness. It's really pretty much all about the attack - which you can test for yourself easily. Just cut the first milliseconds of any riffs in a comparison away and also fade them in a little. The tonal differences get even less. Sometimes (depending on the overall frequency balance and gain) so much you can't even properly distiguish between neck and bridge pickups anymore.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Let's face it, especially in the high gain realm, overdriven sounds start kind of lose their identity and it's much more about the used cabs and maybe the amp's tightness. It's really pretty much all about the attack - which you can test for yourself easily. Just cut the first milliseconds of any riffs in a comparison away and also fade them in a little. The tonal differences get even less. Sometimes (depending on the overall frequency balance and gain) so much you can't even properly distiguish between neck and bridge pickups anymore.

I could not disagree more. This kind of mindset reminds me of my little sister overhearing me playing metal when I was 14 and her saying “they’re all screaming, it all sounds the same”.

I’m reamping stuff constantly through different amps and often leaving other things in the chain consistent - of course there is going to be some amount of overlap and areas where you wouldn’t expect drastic differences. But IMO you are WAY over simplifying things, or overlooking a lot of nuance and detail that is going into these sounds in the first place. The character of the gain defines the sound of these amps as much as the eq profile of it.

If it were as simple as slapping an IR on, you could basically just have one high gain amp and use match eq to turn it into anything else.

 

[[Nathan]]

Let's face it, especially in the high gain realm, overdriven sounds start kind of lose their identity and it's much more about the used cabs and maybe the amp's tightness. It's really pretty much all about the attack - which you can test for yourself easily. Just cut the first milliseconds of any riffs in a comparison away and also fade them in a little. The tonal differences get even less. Sometimes (depending on the overall frequency balance and gain) so much you can't even properly distiguish between neck and bridge pickups anymore.

Haha yeah Ed nailed it. When I hear arrays of clean amps and edge of breakup I think they all sound identical as well, it’s not my wheelhouse. With high gain I wouldn’t expect everyone to understand the differences if they’re not into it.

There’s definitely a difference in high gain stuff and a jump from a rockverb to a bogner to a dual recto is pretty large. If I grabbed some amps I have around here and run a tubescreamer and the same cab they’d sound way way different than this TMP example

 

[Sascha Franck]

If it were as simple as slapping an IR on, you could basically just have one high gain amp and use match eq to turn it into anything else.

I never said that. I said that the main differences would rather be found in dynamics than in the overall sound. And well, analyzers will pretty much prove me right.
We could even have a little contest. Record the same riff through different high gain amplifiers set to a comparable amount of gain (using very little dynamics, because see above...) and post it without cab information.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Record the same riff through different high gain amplifiers set to a comparable amount of gain (using very little dynamics, because see above...)

Here's one I did earlier^

with the same IR on all of them, time stamped from where you can hear them in isolation. Its not just the EQ profile that changes, the way the bottom end blooms out varies, as does the characteristics of the top end. Some have a kind of "chewy" distortion, others can be more brash. Some are similarish, some are more distinct.

 

[Sascha Franck]

with the same IR on all of them, time stamped from where you can hear them in isolation. Its not just the EQ profile that changes, the way the bottom end blooms out varies, as does the characteristics of the top end. Some have a kind of "chewy" distortion, others can be more brash. Some are similarish, some are more distinct.

I'll listen later on. I'm already sure I could bring them *way* closer to each other with just some match EQ.