Did NDSP Kill Off The 3rd Party Profile/Capture Business?

[TJontheRoad]

I'll admit, this is one thing that always bothered me about the NSDP launch of QC. I've never spoke/posted of it before. This because I didn't want to be seen as a big baby whiner in front of the NDSP fanboy mob. Time has past and I've generally moved on to other things. The topic may still yet be of interest for this forum. Allow me to indulge in some personal history. Back in August of 2019, I started offering Kemper profiles on my website. I did a lot of research into the possible size of the market and how well others were doing at it. I never thought I'd get rich at it. But, I did feel it was worth the substantial investment. Some of the larger players you know were doing pretty well from my research I gathered mostly via Google analytics.

For the first few months I got started, my sales well exceeded my low expectations. Ok great :) . Then around the holidays of 2019, rumors of the launch of a Kemper killer started to surface. New sales started to plummet. I had also heard through the grapevine that I was not alone in the 3rd party sales dive. I always knew I was very late to the Kemper world and someday I'd would need to jump on the next bandwagon. So I ordered QC after it was announced with the expectations of doing 3rd party captures. At that time, there was no mention of a NDSP marketplace ecosystem. Only months later, the promise was made for such a thing with a cut of action going to NDSP. Well we are all still waiting on that I guess (actually, I'm not anymore).

Now, there isn't many new Kemper packs coming out from the names we've known. Some makers have offered packs for QC. From what I gather, it's a PITA to get them into the unit. There's no marketplace from NDSP in sight. Even if there was, NDSP taking a cut kills off any chance of it being profitable for the 3rd party. It seems like the whole idea is close to dead maybe?

FWIW, I don't own a Kemper or QC anymore. I do still have Kemper profiles on my website. I get a few sales here and there for some of the more unique stuff I offer. For that, I'm appreciative.

 

[the swede]

Maybe IK is about to be the killer in that game? Hard to say if it’s killing 3rd party or being the new super sellable thing… I guess many would buy profiles/captures of iconic gear.

 

[TJontheRoad]

Maybe IK is about to be the killer in that game? Hard to say if it’s killing 3rd party or being the new super sellable thing… I guess many would buy profiles/captures of iconic gear.

IK could be a player if they had the hardware. I must admit, I have not paid much attention to them though.

 

[Elric]

I doubt it. Market is probably just saturated/mature on the KPA side and the QC being behind on development has just made it a non-starter. I am sure Neural wants to make a marketplace happen, they are just fighting a multi-front war with the QC and have not been able to get it done, I am absolutely certain it will be part of their plan, now, whether their pricing structure or poor market timing inhibits their success will remain to be seen.

Tonehub and TH-U are selling packs and converting KPA stuff. So they are just doing that...

ToneX will be another new thing entirely. IK will have that side of things together with their own shop from day one.

IRs are kind of like this too. There are thousands upon thousands out there. Its kind of mature so to speak.

 

[TJontheRoad]

I doubt it. Market is probably just saturated/mature on the KPA side and the QC being behind on development has just made it a non-starter. I am sure Neural wants to make a marketplace happen, they are just fighting a multi-front war with the QC and have not been able to get it done, I am absolutely certain it will be part of their plan, now, whether their pricing structure or poor market timing inhibits their success will remain to be seen.

Tonehub and TH-U are selling packs and converting KPA stuff. So they are just doing that...

ToneX will be another new thing entirely. IK will have that side of things together with their own shop from day one.

IRs are kind of like this too. There are thousands upon thousands out there. Its kind of mature so to speak.

Yeah, there lots of new stuff coming online now and recenly in the past. By the time NDSP opens a marketplace, it may be already obsolete.

 

[Gearzilla]

I doubt it. Market is probably just saturated/mature on the KPA side and the QC being behind on development has just made it a non-starter. I am sure Neural wants to make a marketplace happen, they are just fighting a multi-front war with the QC and have not been able to get it done, I am absolutely certain it will be part of their plan, now, whether their pricing structure or poor market timing inhibits their success will remain to be seen.

Tonehub and TH-U are selling packs and converting KPA stuff. So they are just doing that...

ToneX will be another new thing entirely. IK will have that side of things together with their own shop from day one.

IRs are kind of like this too. There are thousands upon thousands out there. Its kind of mature so to speak.

I think the combination of Tonex being able to operate as a standalone along with being able to integrate into Amplitude is a pretty big plus.

I’d be surprised if a Tonex player in a pedal format isn’t too far behind given a successful adoption rate of the Tonex software.

 

[metropolis_4]

I hope not, for me it’s the only thing making either platform even worth looking at.

There’s so much garbage on the NDSP cloud that is all so terribly organized I found it a horrifically tedious process to try to find anything decent there.

There’s no chance I would bother looking at the QC again before they have a system for third party content, and someone of the caliber of MBritt creating content

 

[Whizzinby]

By the time NDSP opens a marketplace, it may be already obsolete.

 

[JerEvil]

I do ok at best on Neural capture packs. I probably sell 3 to 1 vs my Kemper packs. I think as mentioned, Kemper market is just so over saturated. I only make KPA packs because everything is pretty well already set up.

 

[James Freeman]

NDSP's original intention was to sell their own captures first and foremost, hence the multi-level security against 'sharing' anything without round tripping through their cloud, thus completely missing what made the Kemper successful in the first place.
They could "open their gates" a little to get things going until they get their shit together, they would never of course, greed is a powerful thing.

I would say nothing changed in the 3rd party Profile market, like the QC never existed at all.

 

[jay mitchell]

NDSP's original intention was to sell their own captures first and foremost,

While I have no idea how accurate that statement is, it's a concept that has been used successfully in other markets: sell hardware as partially-populated platforms for software, then offer various bits of software at additional cost. Unlike a third party, the hardware mfr has very effective tools available to prevent unauthorized sharing. For example, a capture file could link itself to a specific device serial number upon upload. There are aftermarket high-performance reflashes for cars that operate this way.

As for the general third-party market for profiles/captures, I'd say it's been on the decline for several years. The Amp Factory announced that there would be no more new kpa profiles in 2015, years before the QC's introduction.

 

[yeky83]

The Amp Factory announced that there would be no more new kpa profiles in 2015

Huh, didn't know that.

 

[James Freeman]

To me it cannot be more obvious what NDSP's and IK's intentions are, bringing this cool technology to the people like Kemper did is the least part of it now.

 

[SwirlyMaple]

To me it cannot be more obvious what NDSP's and IK's intentions are, bringing this cool technology to the people like Kemper did is the least part of it now.

On one hand, I really can’t fault businesses for wanting to make money. Even though it sucks, that’s really the ultimate purpose of any profitable effort.

But, it sure does make you appreciate brands like Kemper all the more, who allow openness and place control in the hands of the consumer to drive their sales, instead of trying to maintain a stifling chokehold on everything.

 

[Jarick]

Everything I've read and heard is that there will be some kind of marketplace for NDSP, and I'm assuming that means they will get a cut of sales. That would be clever on their part.

On the Kemper side, agreed I think it's over saturation. The device has been out for over a decade and everything has been profiled a hundred times.

 

[JerEvil]

Everything I've read and heard is that there will be some kind of marketplace for NDSP, and I'm assuming that means they will get a cut of sales. That would be clever on their part.

On the Kemper side, agreed I think it's over saturation. The device has been out for over a decade and everything has been profiled a hundred times.

Yeah I don’t fault Neural for creating a marketplace and keeping a cut.

Line 6 does it as well and it actually
Protects sellers from guys just sharing your shit out with all their friends.

 

[Fireproof]

I don't think they killed anything. Just hopping on the profiling bandwagon.

And they currently haven't even fully executed their "marketplace" where they would take a cut. At the rate they are developing, they might be a year+ off from delivering that...

 

[mikah912]

At the rate they are developing, they might be a year+ off from delivering that...

Passed the "one year later" threshold, and we're all still waiting on the porting and sales of plugins, which will of course preface any sort of capture marketplace. Just an epic bag fumble on NDSP's part.

 

[Achilles]

Profile market is probably just saturated/mature.

I'd argue this is true on a lot of the digital aftermarket fronts.

 

[Lysander]

I'd argue this is true on a lot of the digital aftermarket fronts.

What? Tell me with a straight face you don't need yet another $15 IR pack for a 4x12" with Greenbacks!