Modeler Shootout Clips - Axe 3, Helix, Kemper, NDSP Plugins

[Jarick]

I made this last year and completely forgot to post it. Thought it might be fun for folks to take a break from fighting over modelers to ripping on my audio clips!

I used the same dry tracks from my old modeler comparison from about five years ago, re-amped them using new modelers, and using the same IR. For Kemper I think I disabled the cab. I didn't have the QC at the time so I used the NDSP plugins. I'll follow back later today and update with what I used in detail.

Also if folks are interested, I can re-do to some extend with the QC included. Would have been fun to include the Boss GT-1000 but that's moved on...

Updated shootout for 2023:



Original shootout from 2020 (same dry clips, different IR's and settings):

 

[Lysander]

Great shootout!

Honestly, all of those tones are great and usable. The only outlier is the Kemper, which doesn't seem to fare as well on the crunches - and maybe a bit the QCNDSP plugins, which are always too boomy to my ears - but it's really splitting hairs.

 

[Jarick]

Great shootout!

Honestly, all of those tones are great and usable. The only outlier is the Kemper, which doesn't seem to fare as well on the crunches - and maybe a bit the QC, which is always too boomy to my ears - but it's really splitting hairs.

To be clear the NDSP tones are the plugins and not QC, but yeah both those and Kemper sounded a little funny. Fractal and Helix are always really close.

 

[0XI0]

helix gain you can really hear the bloom and bias excursion and damping, there's so much shifting harmonic complexity in the breakup but it all sounds so tied in together, I love Helix for the "warts". I love kemper cause it always sounds like a live microphone

 

[GTR37]

To be clear the NDSP tones are the plugins and not QC, but yeah both those and Kemper sounded a little funny. Fractal and Helix are always really close.

That might make a small difference?
Many do say the QC is not as thick in low mids and a bit brighter with more presence
But you could probably answer that better

 

[Jarick]

I’ll likely reshoot the clips and update with QC over the next couple days.

Every time I listen to these I’m surprised how close the Helix is to Fractal

 

[marshall2553]

Wow, the Axe and Helix sound surprisingly close on the Still Remains and Black Hole Sun clips.

 

[OneEng]

Great shoot out.

Just a few quibbles

1. There seems to be volume disparities between the clips. Always seems like the Axe is louder.
2. In the Kemper clips, it seems like the eq isn't setup the same as the others.
3. The Neural clips surprised me. Better than I thought.

In my time having a few of these in the room at the same time, me and my friends were always able to get the Kemper, Axe III Fx, and Helix to a usable tone pretty quickly. I was always able to get my Kemper there a little faster, but both the Axe and Helix got there with reasonably little work also.

I always thought that Fractal had marginally better EFX, but your clips on Candlebox seemed pretty close across the board.

On the Kemper, try using the clarity and definition settings if the tone sounds a little muffled. Also adding just a bit of bypass in the amp (add in a bit of the raw guitar tone) always makes things sound better to me.

 

[timbuck3]

 

[Orvillain]

I do not like the Kemper at all in any of these clips. How strange.

The others are all really good. I'd take any of them.

 

[FuzzyAce]

Nice comparison. Axe and Helix sound ideal to me. The Axe seems smoother overall yet still detailed, a bit more present with better harmonics and overtones I think.

 

[OneEng]

I do not like the Kemper at all in any of these clips. How strange.

The others are all really good. I'd take any of them.

I agree. Owning a Kemper and having done entire days of comparisons to a friends Axe III Fx, I can confidently say that in a detailed session of comparisons, the Kemper stands its ground very well against the tone of the Axe III Fx. These clips don't show that though.

I would like to know how the clips were done. Specifically, what settings were used on each device. Was this just one stock setting vs. another stock setting? If so, it is still fair; however, it should be stated that this is what is being done vs. each device attempting to be setup for a specific sound in a specific song.

For me, the best comparison would be to pick a song with a tone you were attempting to achieve as the base line (like the intro to the Candlebox song for example). Then record each device with a specific "preset" without tweaking. Have a clip with it alone on each device, and in the mix on each device. Then tweak each device to achieve the best desired tone to the original and do the same thing.

Do this for a set of songs to outline the devices ability to achieve different types of tones and assess:

1. Out of the box preset quality
2. Ease of tweakability
3. Speed of tweaking to achieve a specific tone
4. Quality of tone out of the mix
5. Quality of tone in the mix

My personal opinion is that very few people will buy a digital amp at this level and NOT tweak it to their guitar and their needs. The out of the box preset quality is largely irrelevant. I could be mistaken though and many others may disagree. Of course, one could argue that it is flat out stupid for a company not to have good presets as to help sales in a music store where it is much more likely for people to just filter through the presets.

 

[Orvillain]

I agree. Owning a Kemper and having done entire days of comparisons to a friends Axe III Fx, I can confidently say that in a detailed session of comparisons, the Kemper stands its ground very well against the tone of the Axe III Fx. These clips don't show that though.

I've done the same, and reached a very different conclusion. But I think my opinions on the Kemper are well known by now!!

 

[Jarick]

Great shoot out.

Just a few quibbles

1. There seems to be volume disparities between the clips. Always seems like the Axe is louder.
2. In the Kemper clips, it seems like the eq isn't setup the same as the others.
3. The Neural clips surprised me. Better than I thought.

In my time having a few of these in the room at the same time, me and my friends were always able to get the Kemper, Axe III Fx, and Helix to a usable tone pretty quickly. I was always able to get my Kemper there a little faster, but both the Axe and Helix got there with reasonably little work also.

I always thought that Fractal had marginally better EFX, but your clips on Candlebox seemed pretty close across the board.

On the Kemper, try using the clarity and definition settings if the tone sounds a little muffled. Also adding just a bit of bypass in the amp (add in a bit of the raw guitar tone) always makes things sound better to me.

Volume is tricky, I tried to match using both level meters (peak and average) as well as my ears. It never seems to be perfect though.

I don't have the Kemper anymore, but as it doesn't really work like a modeler I think that's why it's so far off.

 

[banned]

Clips are the best...cut through all the talk. Thanks for doing this Jarick. These should just become reference clips going forward since we've all listened to them for a long time.

AxeFX and Helix sound very close but the AxeFx seems a little louder. Same amp models for different gain levels (i.e. clean - breakup - high gain etc.) like the original clips?

 

[Cactusprick]

Thank you Jarick for sharing. I also have done comparisons (for myself) so understand this can be very time consuming.

Fractal sounds consistently best to my ears. Helix holds up so well as well. Kemper is disappointing. QC is somewhat a mixed bag.

 

[northern_fox]

Volume is tricky, I tried to match using both level meters (peak and average) as well as my ears. It never seems to be perfect though.

Normalize by LUFS instead - peaks won't necessarily get you the same perceived level

 

[OneEng]

I've done the same, and reached a very different conclusion. But I think my opinions on the Kemper are well known by now!!

I am guessing your conclusions are the opposite of mine .

Still, no reasonable person can argue that you can't get good usable tone from either of these devices. I feel that someone that is better at tweaking an Axe may well be able to obtain a desired tone at the same speed as I can on my Kemper. It would be a great shootout to say the least.