Captures/profiles, for me; are ultimately a useless diversion. NTTAWWT

[Elric]

IMHO, The primary value of captures is putting (virtual versions of) your personal amps/analog gear into your tiny little portable box. I think that is why capturing devices (KPA, QC, probably ToneX in the future, too); are popular with folks doing significant touring...

Getting to sample other people's stuff is a nice bonus but I think if you do not have stuff of your own you want virtualize component modeling is generally a more usable paradigm for people who are going full digital. Sifting through other people's Captures quickly becomes a data management problem similar to IRs.

 

[Mongillo19]

This is part of the reason I’m just sending mine back. I don’t want to have to try to negotiate these waters with another buyer. I’ll let IK turn off whatever s/w no longer applies, and that’s that.

If you didn't have the QC do you think you'd keep it?

 

[northern_fox]

Honestly, if you're spending 12 hours dialing in an amp sim, you're doing it all so so so very wrong.

An exaggeration for making the point. It's very easy to over tweak if you keep seeking "better" tone in one sitting because A/B comparisons will always mislead you to believe that either A or B is better in some way, when really it's just different. Obviously that applies to any kind of audio work, but particularly with parameter deep modelers. One of the things I like about captures is that they sound often so different from one another that its easier to just get what you like and play it instead of worrying about deep tweaking. The sound is the sound and that's pretty much it, aside from post EQ. And if you made the capture yourself, you know it sounds 'correct' and you don't have to second guess all the tweaks and EQ.

 

[northern_fox]

IMHO, The primary value of captures is putting (virtual versions of) your personal amps/analog gear into your tiny little portable box. I think that is why capturing devices (KPA, QC, probably ToneX in the future, too); are popular with folks doing significant touring...

This - is the reason I like it so much. Being able to use my own favorite stuff so easily instead of constantly fighting to recreate it in modelers. It's not that it's necessarily better, it's that you can use what you want to use, plain and simple. People constantly trying to make things out as objectively better is honestly just tiring. Use what you want because the only person that will know (or care) is you.

 

[Orvillain]

An exaggeration for making the point. It's very easy to over tweak if you keep seeking "better" tone in one sitting because A/B comparisons will always mislead you to believe that either A or B is better in some way, when really it's just different. Obviously that applies to any kind of audio work, but particularly with parameter deep modelers. One of the things I like about captures is that they sound often so different from one another that its easier to just get what you like and play it instead of worrying about deep tweaking. The sound is the sound and that's pretty much it, aside from post EQ. And if you made the capture yourself, you know it sounds 'correct' and you don't have to second guess all the tweaks and EQ.

I mean, if that truly is the goal, may as well just get an amp and a loadbox. The sound is the sound. There you go. Boom. Instant simplicity.

But for some reason, most guitarists (myself included) don't want to do that. They want to pontificate endlessly about tone.

And at the end of the day... it's the song that matters. You might wanna checkout my thread I just started earlier:

How important are your amp tones... really?

Sorry for slightly clickbait title ;) So this could be better described as - How important are MY amp tones... really? In the context of one particular song. This is the chorus section of a song. I've been working on this song on and off since December, as a part of my new album. It was...

thegearforum.com

Coz I'm a nerd and I'm feeling too ill to track anything, I spent the day (lol, roughly 12 hours as it goes!) messing around with tone... and for what?? They're all pretty much the same in the context of the song tbh!!

For me... I like ToneX because it's better than Kemper and QC. But it still isn't perfect. It's just as easy for me to hook one of my valve amps up to my Suhr loadbox and get the actual amp tone, as it is to load up ToneX in the DAW... so I'm kinda thinking... why not just use the real amps? It would be a bit silly not to.

 

[paisleywookiee]

The problem with captures will always be that it's a snapshot. Until they can handle the sweep of every knob (and I'm sure one day they will), I'm not too interested. ToneX is cool due to its accuracy AND cost. But ultimately, I still like component modeling more.

 

[Mongillo19]

For me... I like ToneX because it's better than Kemper and QC. But it still isn't perfect. It's just as easy for me to hook one of my valve amps up to my Suhr loadbox and get the actual amp tone, as it is to load up ToneX in the DAW... so I'm kinda thinking... why not just use the real amps? It would be a bit silly not to.

For me it has to do with $$$$. If I can get "close enough" to high end amps using digital gear that's going to be my option lol

 

[Deadpan]

The problem with captures will always be that it's a snapshot. Until they can handle the sweep of every knob (and I'm sure one day they will), I'm not too interested. ToneX is cool due to its accuracy AND cost. But ultimately, I still like component modeling more.

I swear Kemper promised this year's ago?

 

[paisleywookiee]

I swear Kemper promised this year's ago?

Sweep of each knob? No idea, but it ain’t here yet.

 

[Elric]

The problem with captures will always be that it's a snapshot. Until they can handle the sweep of every knob (and I'm sure one day they will), I'm not too interested. ToneX is cool due to its accuracy AND cost. But ultimately, I still like component modeling more.

That’s either the ”problem” or the great thing about them depending on what you are doing. Most of my amps I have a couple of settings on them I like. I don’t tend d*ck around much at all with my analog/tube gear after I find the settings that work for me. Capture those and you have those fave tones locked in on a nice portable unit.

 

[paisleywookiee]

That’s either the ”problem” or the great thing about them depending on what you are doing. Most of my amps I have a couple of settings on them I like. I don’t tend d*ck around much at all with my analog/tube gear after I find the settings that work for me. Capture those and you have those fave tones locked in on a nice portable unit.

The problem comes in when you’re using different guitars, tunings, etc. the adjustments often fall outside of what sound good on the unit, if you drift too far. Which is all well and good if you own the amp you’re profiling. But relying on someone else’s captures sucks, IMO.

 

[creative360]

Kemper never promised mirrored component controls.

Meanwhile every great amp that I’ve owned has been pretty much set and forget, from day one. That includes a Dumble clone + buffered effects loop with lots of knobs.

The beautiful thing about this tech is that a global set of parameters means switching between different kinds of amps and doing the very slight tweaking necessary from one venue to the next is easy and consistent.

Personally I don’t need the full sweep of every knob on every amp I use. I don’t know anyone who does.

That said, I appreciate that Fractal exists for the deep divers. Haven’t used modern Line 6, but the NDSP plugins don’t compete with the snapshot approach. The tweaking is usually about getting it to feel like what comes out of the amp just from turning it on.

Meanwhile all kinds of folks are touring MBritt snaps and doing great. Sorta like a million dudes stepping up to backline amps and killing it since the beginning of time, but better in some ways.

Anyway this argument has been going on for over a decade. Metal and prog have veered more toward modeling and everyone else-ish toward snaps. It truly doesn’t matter. No one sounds great with one or the other who wouldn’t sound great with whatever.

Meanwhile ToneX. I was listening to some free models on YouTube. This thing, maybe with five or six amps in it, on a small board with three or four other pedals, dogged software or not, still seems like the way, way best deal in town for uncompromising tones, and truly portable. At least until someone who owns a Stomp XL says or proves that those tones are just as good, and a used one wins with all of those effects and routing.

I don’t want all kinds of content in an “amp” that I’ll never use, like on modelers, but I don't agree about needing amps to profile for this kind of thing to be worth it.

If your mindset is searcher, digital will always be a fraught proposition. If not then a handful of great amps or less can make a career.

 

[dk_ace]

Not for nothing, but it sounds like this product came out at the best possible time for you. :)

 

[norminal]

Still getting reacquainted with the Helix platform, for it’s been a while, but the HX Stomp with TONEX was an absolute win this evening. So much tone in such a “small package.”

EDIT: Am I missing something or can you not turn off the capacitive touch functionality on the HX Stomp?

 

[northern_fox]

Still getting reacquainted with the Helix platform, for it’s been a while, but the HX Stomp with TONEX was an absolute win this evening. So much tone in such a “small package.”

EDIT: Am I missing something or can you not turn off the capacitive touch functionality on the HX Stomp?

I switched back to using the hx instead of the fm3 and I'm digging it because I can flip it between tonex OR my real amp via 4cm, with a few other favorite pedals all on a metro 16. 3 channel midi baby on the way instead of 1

 

[mbenigni]

Still getting reacquainted with the Helix platform, for it’s been a while, but the HX Stomp with TONEX was an absolute win this evening. So much tone in such a “small package.”

EDIT: Am I missing something or can you not turn off the capacitive touch functionality on the HX Stomp?

You can def. turn off capacitive switching on Stomp, and IMO it’s most important on Stomp given the position/proximity of the encoders.

 

[mbenigni]

If you didn't have the QC do you think you'd keep it?

Hard to say. Maybe? If I didn’t have a QC, maybe I’d have struggled with the ToneX long enough to wrestle my own presets into shape. Once that’s done, no question this can be a very effective, inexpensive tool.

I’ve said before that UI is of outsized importance to me. (E.g. in defense of my decision to stick with QC.) This is partly because I design UIs as part of my professional work, and when things don’t make good common sense, the hairs stand up on the back of my neck (a very distracting, non-musical state lol.) And it’s partly because I use these tools (for me, often, toys) in a wide variety of ways, such that “set and forget” is seldom an option. (Case in point, every time I moved the ToneX from desktop for FR to my 4x12 with cab sims disabled, I’d slowly go postal.)

If I didn’t have a QC… well, I’d buy a QC. Or maybe I’d circle back to Helix and try a little harder to get the amp tones where I want them. Or maybe finally bite the bullet on FAS. Or… I might go with something with an integrated power amp - Blug, or some kind of micro head - since I’ve been having so much fun with Quilter and HX 4cm. Hell, maybe I’m all set with that rig. :)

 

[Deadpan]

Kemper never promised mirrored component controls.

Christoph Kemper of Kemper Amps Talks About Their New Profiling Amp – Guitar-Muse.com

www.guitar-muse.com

 

[JT]

Tone-X went bye-bye. KILLER pedal but having to integrate it into something just felt like too much commitment to make in the long run. Now I can just buy some more drive pedals and enjoy the mix and match

 

[paisleywookiee]

I don’t want all kinds of content in an “amp” that I’ll never use, like on modelers, but I don't agree about needing amps to profile for this kind of thing to be worth it.

I don’t see any point in having a profiler or capture device, unless you A. stick to a handful of sounds or B. have amp(s). I don’t play old Marshalls, where the EQ is about as useful as tits on a bull.

I play Orange and Mesa, where the EQ is highly interactive, and there are (in the case of Mesas) multiple modes that change the sound drastically. And yes, I do fiddle with the EQ and modes a lot, depending on the guitar and sound I’m going for, if I’m using dirt pedals in front; etc.

I don’t know about Quad Cortex, but the Kemper went to shit when you drifted too far on EQ or gain. Drove me fucking nuts.