Captures/profiles, for me; are ultimately a useless diversion. NTTAWWT

[Orvillain]

 

[mavrick102000]

This product came out at about the worst possible time for me, very little time for guitar for a few months and what time I do have for it is focused on gigs and prepping for gigs, no time to experiment with new gear.

Been watching others experience from a distance to see what I want to do when I finally have some time to experiment. I was particularly interested in what the hard to please crowd like JT would think about it after some time.

The big question I’ve been trying to answer is what would I really gain from it? I’m happy with what I can achieve with Helix for direct sounds and I don’t have an amp around that makes a sound that I can’t reproduce well enough with Helix for live stuff.

Maybe there’s not enough to gain here for me to spend the time on it…. I have a feeling I might end up finding a few interesting profiles I like, dialing in something similar on Helix, and finding no real reason to keep the profiler around. I’ve got a pile of cool outboard gear here that has already met a similar fate…

D

Just wait it out for a while and focus on what you have now that works for you, especially since you gig.

(Says the guy who bought one on day one, because reasons and squirrels). For me it's just another nice to have, not necessary.

My wife dropped an uncomfortable truth-bomb during a conversation the other day.... "I don't hear you learning any new songs. Are you trying to learn new songs, or what are you trying to do with guitar?" (in my head, "I like noises that you may not like, and it helps me avoid projects with power tools that could end my ability to make these noises in the future") .

Yes, over my 10 year hiatus from playing (injuries) I lost a bit of chord vocabulary , but the muscle memory is mostly there. The things I work on are technique I never had for lead, melody work - rhythm I can figure out and stay in tempo fairly easily.

 

[northern_fox]

On the flip side, you can spend 12 hours dialing in your perfect model but end up making it much, much worse due to ear fatigue. And no matter how much you deep dive those knobs, the model isn't going to deviate all that much from its initial state (for the better, at least).

What I do like about captures is how markedly *different* they are from one another. Often times I think I've dialed in the perfect fractal model tone, only to find a capture of the same amp that immediately sounds significantly different and potentially preferrable. The reverse can also be true, of course. But a single component model doesn't necessarily provide the sound you end up preferring, for whatever variety of reasons that might be - no matter the length of tweaking. And often times the only way to push the model to the sound I want is with tone match, not tweaking

 

[JiveTurkey]

On the flip side, you can spend 12 hours dialing in your perfect model but end up making it much, much worse due to ear fatigue. And no matter how much you deep dive those knobs, the model isn't going to deviate all that much from its initial state (for the better, at least).

What I do like about captures is how markedly *different* they are from one another. Often times I think I've dialed in the perfect fractal model tone, only to find a capture of the same amp that immediately sounds significantly different and potentially preferrable. The reverse can also be true, of course. But a single component model doesn't necessarily provide the sound you end up preferring, for whatever variety of reasons that might be - no matter the length of tweaking. And often times the only way to push the model to the sound I want is with tone match, not tweaking

To be clear; this isn't a FAS is better than anything, thing. Whether it's Boss, HX or FAS stuff; I can get pleasing results out of all of them. I never had any luck recording with the Kemper in the 7-8 times I owned it and the Tone-X is 100% shaping up to be the same thing. Hence; thread. Sorry @jellodog

 

[northern_fox]

To be clear; this isn't a FAS is better than anything, thing. Whether it's Boss, HX or FAS stuff; I can get pleasing results out of all of them. I never had any luck recording with the Kemper in the 7-8 times I owned it and the Tone-X is 100% shaping up to be the same thing. Hence; thread. Sorry @jellodog

I also don't think capturing is end-all-be all tech in this respect. What I'd love to see is some hybrid stuff that gives you a little of both honestly - ML for highly nonlinear/hard to model stuff and analytical modeling for other parts. Would be pretty CPU intensive though I think

 

[jellodog]

 

[dk_ace]

On the flip side, you can spend 12 hours dialing in your perfect model but end up making it much, much worse due to ear fatigue. And no matter how much you deep dive those knobs, the model isn't going to deviate all that much from its initial state (for the better, at least).

What I do like about captures is how markedly *different* they are from one another. Often times I think I've dialed in the perfect fractal model tone, only to find a capture of the same amp that immediately sounds significantly different and potentially preferrable. The reverse can also be true, of course. But a single component model doesn't necessarily provide the sound you end up preferring, for whatever variety of reasons that might be - no matter the length of tweaking. And often times the only way to push the model to the sound I want is with tone match, not tweaking

This hasn’t been my experience unless I’ve started off on the wrong foot by using an IR/cab that wasn’t right for the sound I really wanted. Hard to tweak an amp model around that if you have a speaker that really isn’t right for the sound you want. Other than that, I’ve never really had the experience you describe. Although, if you’ve messed with something too long and your ears are toast, no amp, modeler, or profiler is gonna save you then. Time to focus on playing and forget the tone or just walk away for the day and come back another time (I usually go for the latter).

D

 

[northern_fox]

This hasn’t been my experience unless I’ve started off on the wrong foot by using an IR/cab that wasn’t right for the sound I really wanted. Hard to tweak an amp model around that if you have a speaker that really isn’t right for the sound you want. Other than that, I’ve never really had the experience you describe. Although, if you’ve messed with something too long and your ears are toast, no amp, modeler, or profiler is gonna save you then. Time to focus on playing and forget the tone or just walk away for the day and come back another time (I usually go for the latter).

D

Yes, that's a solid point. But I know I'm not the only one to sit there and try endlessly to "improve" things by deep tweaking :)

 

[Mongillo19]

Yes, that's a solid point. But I know I'm not the only one to sit there and try endlessly to "improve" things by deep tweaking :)

"Now let's see what happens when I change the power supply"

 

[Stratzrus]

I can totally get why someone like e.g Guitarjon is excited about it. Dude's got a wall of amps to capture and then use conveniently. Sure, an Axe-Fx will do a ton of amps too, but they are not going to be his favorite amps.

Doing captures/profiles makes all the sense in the world for someone like that. If I were him I'd want a profiler too.

On the flip side, you can spend 12 hours dialing in your perfect model but end up making it much, much worse due to ear fatigue. And no matter how much you deep dive those knobs, the model isn't going to deviate all that much from its initial state (for the better, at least).

Patient: "Doctor, it hurts when I move my arm like this."

Doctor: "Don't move your arm like that."

I've only spent more than twenty minutes dialing in an amp block three or four times in the twenty years I've been using Fractal gear. I prefer to make minor adjustments over time spending less than five minutes tweaking at a time. I'd much rather play than tweak.

I know some people fall down the rabbit hole tweaking. They may be be better off using profiles/captures.

No one solution is perfect for everyone. Thank goodness we have so many options that may meet our particular needs and cater to our own idiosyncrasies.

 

[Mongillo19]

I do think there is something to be said about the dynamics of captures. No please don't ask me to put it into more scientific terms but sometimes fractal models, especially clean amps, can sound a little stiff. However you can usually rectify this with their juicy reverbs

 

[Enchilada Jones]

I'm with Northern Fox on this one. A modeler with millions of options makes me need to explore and the end result (the end that never really comes) is I end up with the same pushed plexi sound.

In Tonex world I have saved around 21 presets, each quite different and love jamming along to my looper like I'm a room full of different players, each with a different amp.

Now, I can't say I've actually recorded a complete *anything* with it, but that is true with real amps or a pair of Fractals and a Kemper and a Quad Cortex and Helix floor all in the room.

I notice my iPhone has been telling me my screen time is down over 30% since I installed Tonex and I believe it is because I wake up, make coffee, check ToneNet for anything intriguing to download and then the rest of the day just play more than tweak or surf the net than I ever did before.
So between getting banned at TGP and installing Tonex I'm a born again guitar player!!

 

[Stratzrus]

I notice my iPhone has been telling me my screen time is down over 30% since I installed Tonex and I believe it is because I wake up, make coffee, check ToneNet for anything intriguing to download and then the rest of the day just play more than tweak or surf the net than I ever did before.

It's a wonderful thing when you can get rid of whatever distractions you may have and spend more time playing.

I recently picked up a Blackstar St. James combo and am back to practicing twice a day instead of once a week. My FM9 remains in its box.

I'll pull it out and check out how it works with the Blackstar soon enough but for now I'm just concentrating on my chops, not the nuances of tone.

I've noticed that new gear can inspire me to play more, as the new amp has. Glad the Tonex has done the same for you.

 

[James Freeman]

Not to cross-forum gripe but when you sell the pedal how does license transfer works?

 

[Mongillo19]

Not to cross-forum gripe but when you sell the pedal how does license transfer works?

From what ive seen you cannot transfer the Tone X Max license. If you are worried about how you will load the captures to your device, I believe there is a free tone X software bundle?

I know I'm not the person you were asking but thought I'd give it a go lol

 

[Lysander]

Not to cross-forum gripe but when you sell the pedal how does license transfer works?

It doesn't. Big issue for me, tbh.

 

[Orvillain]

On the flip side, you can spend 12 hours dialing in your perfect model but end up making it much, much worse due to ear fatigue

Honestly, if you're spending 12 hours dialing in an amp sim, you're doing it all so so so very wrong.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

I haven’t cracked open the box holding the pedal yet, so I can’t comment on how the pedal deviates from using Tonex as a plugin. That being said it’s cool to have, but I don’t know that it really adds anything/much to just going with HX Native for the amp modeling portion in that environment. Additionally HX Native is more flexible. On the other hand the pedal itself after the discount is less than picking up a Browne Protein OD so it does offers a lot of variety at the price point.

At this point, my digital options so runneth over that in terms of "percentage of option increase" even something like the ToneX may actually not be as big a delta on my end as a Browne Protein OD, honestly.

To the OP's point, part of what I loved about Kemper was that it was the most plug-n-play-n-play-n-play-n-play experience ever. But if I recorded anything when I was on the Kemper train...it was immediately back to modeling plugin world.

 

[signalpath]

I posted this in another thread … It explains my rationale for getting the pedal. When it comes to using most models I just use my FM3 or HX Stomp though as a low-gain player I often use the Scout and my favourite on the Stomp, the Grammatico.

I will buy the TONEX pedal because if it’s as good as it’s reported to be it represents a real value proposition to me. And that’s primarily in allowing captures of amps that fall well outside of the mainstream of what companies like Fractal and Line 6 see worth spending the time and effort modelling - early Gibsons, a variety of Chicago manufacturers, Baldwins, Polytones, Bensons, Filmosounds, and so on.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

I posted this in another thread … It explains my rationale for getting the pedal. When it comes to using most models I just use my FM3 or HX Stomp though as a low-gain player I often use the Scout and my favourite on the Stomp, the Grammatico.

Do you have access to these a.ps to capture yourself? One of the challenges I had with the Kemper in pursuing a similar strategy was - I'd find someone profiles an amp I was super psyched about (rare to find more than one on these types of amps) and then find the captures by that person to sound bad to me across the board (looking squarely at you TAF!)

In general, between the number of tweed and brownface amps, the scout, the swart, divided by thirteen, blues Jr., Etc., in the Fractal and Silvertone, supro, divided by thirteen, victoria...there is a loooooooot of ground covered in the FM3 and Helix.