Anybody else getting sick of modellers?

[gy1900s]

AKA soiled

You could say that, But it still doesn't change the fact that there high end amps are very good amps.

It's the same thing with Mesa boogie these days. They made a few turds, and now.
everyone is scared of them. Last I heard, Mesa was on the verge of getting absorbed.

 

[paisleywookiee]

You could say that, But it still doesn't change the fact that there high end amps are very good amps.

That's not a fact.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Problem now with Boogie is Gibson. A Nomad and a Heartbreaker isn't the equivalent of the perception of the entire brand.

 

[gy1900s]

That's not a fact.

What type of amp do you play?

 

[Achilles]

And now a word from our sponsors...

Back to your regularly scheduled program.

 

[la szum]

 

[JiveTurkey]

I think if they had the Artisan (and the quality that I have heard you speak of) in that silver tolex (they put out on a solid state turd) a while back; I would be a lot more inclined to be open to it. But that price and the burple are just hard no's from me dawg

 

[norminal]

Sick of modelers? Nowhere near how sick I was of lugging heavy-ass amps and cabs up narrow back stairwells of dive bars.

 

[Alex Kenivel]

It's a back/forth thing for sure. I'd rather plug into the 50W Stealth these days but for recording? Fuggedaboudit! Modeling all day. Pedalboard shmedlebaord I'll use a modeler as an FX only unit and not deal with all the cabling (which I actually enjoy, just not when I'm playing guitar).

I have a Helix and a Stomp and neither of them get in my way tonally, probably because I stick to a handful of amp models I know work well for me, and only use one IR - - the cab I use. I created the IR with a reference mic and EQed to perfection myself. No option paralysis, no huge sweeping differences between what comes out of FoH/IEMs/studio monitors/wedge/physical cab, no sweat.

 

[Frodebro]

The Katana is not a modeling amp. It's a multi effects digital processor integrated into a solid state amp with a traditional class AB analog gain stage.

There are no preset patches, and the on-board amp models are not inspirations unless you consider clean, crunch, lead etc inspirations.

The Katana does have effects that are inspired from existing effect, particularly Boss effects, but it does not model existing amps unless you create or download patches to do so.

This subject comes up quite often in Katana groups and has been beaten to death. It literally says the Katana is not a modeling amp on the Boss website. This is not opinion, it's fact.

What I have noticed is that a lot of older players can't get past the whole modeling thing and often don't understand the Katana, which is why it's the most returned amp out there. My nephew works at Guitar center and says they get boomers almost on the daily
because they can't wrap their minds around the concept of the Katana. It's not designed to sound like other amps. It's a quality solid state amp with a $hi+load of effects.

The only thing analog about the Katanas is the Class A/B power section. The preamp is entirely digital, and utilizes the COSM modeling engine, which was taken straight from the GT100. You remember the “Sneaky Amps”? Those were already in the firmware (which was lifted straight out of the GT100). If the preamp/gain stages were analog, you wouldn’t be able to hack into the SOFTWARE to unlock them.

You can tweak everything from the editor because it’s all digital.

You can save presets in the computer because it’s all digital.

While BOSS played with the verbiage for marketing reasons, it is a digital amp simulator, also more commonly known as a modeler.

I have a MkII Artist, and it is a fine noisemaker (applying my own verbiage here).

 

[Alex Kenivel]

The Katana is not a modeling amp. It's a multi effects digital processor integrated into a solid state amp with a traditional class AB analog gain stage.

There are no preset patches, and the on-board amp models are not inspirations unless you consider clean, crunch, lead etc inspirations.

The Katana does have effects that are inspired from existing effect, particularly Boss effects, but it does not model existing amps unless you create or download patches to do so.

This subject comes up quite often in Katana groups and has been beaten to death. It literally says the Katana is not a modeling amp on the Boss website. This is not opinion, it's fact.

What I have noticed is that a lot of older players can't get past the whole modeling thing and often don't understand the Katana, which is why it's the most returned amp out there. My nephew works at Guitar center and says they get boomers almost on the daily
because they can't wrap their minds around the concept of the Katana. It's not designed to sound like other amps. It's a quality solid state amp with a $hi+load of effects.

Close! They are digital Preamps and effects, with a class A/B poweramp stage.

Oh god, I remember this debate from TOP. I also remember the Katana website says “One notable feature of the Katana-100 is its expanded selection of amp models and effects, providing a comprehensive palette of tones suitable for various musical styles.”

Not This Shit Again™

They added that with the release of the Gen 2.

You can download amp models called sneaky amps that where used for one of their floor processors. They're not designed for the Katana, and as a result they sound literally nothing like the amps they're labeled as. In fact, they mostly just sound bad in general because they weren't designed for the Katana.

Close, again. You don't "download" the sneaky amps, they're already on there without a real option to select them provided you use the panel or their editor. There are third party editors that allow you to select these sneaky digital Preamps, although one of my favorites was crippled with one of the Mk2 FW updates.

 

[la szum]

Yup. Situation = Solution. Since not all situations are the same, why should the solutions be.

 

[Alex Kenivel]

The only thing analog about the Katanas is the Class A/B power section. The preamp is entirely digital, and utilizes the COSM modeling engine, which was taken straight from the GT100. You remember the “Sneaky Amps”? Those were already in the firmware (which was lifted straight out of the GT100). If the preamp/gain stages were analog, you wouldn’t be able to hack into the SOFTWARE to unlock them.

You can tweak everything from the editor because it’s all digital.

You can save presets in the computer because it’s all digital.

While BOSS played with the verbiage for marketing reasons, it is a digital amp simulator, also more commonly known as a modeler.

I have a MkII Artist, and it is a fine noisemaker (applying my own verbiage here).

 

[Whizzinby]

I can’t imagine not having a modeler. Too easy to record, and also a great way to demo gear that would be too costly to churn otherwise. But nothing beats flipping the switch on the JVM and getting some cabs slapping.

Modeler + Power Amp + CAB might be the best of both worlds though. Digging that approach atm.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Fwiw, I don't even think about whether I'm sick of modelers or amps or whatever.
While I will likely modify my life setup some day soon for some reasons, the thought of ever going back to amps doesn't even remotely cross my mind anymore. Like never. Ever. It's just nothing to ever happen again. At best, I may improve my fullrange monitoring. Others than that, the ship has sailed once and forever. Should I ever use a "real" amp again, it'd be because it's supplied by the venue, is the only thing on a session or whatever.
I'm pretty sure there's some things I'd like when playing a real amp. And perhaps even prefer over a modeling based setup. But I couldn't even remotely think of enough reasons why these things would win over all the stuff coming along with modeling, especially when used in a FR monitoring setup.
IOW, modeling has solved sooo many issues for me, it's simply incredible.

 

[Orvillain]

These conversations are always fun.

Just remember people, that if this feels like Deja Vu it is a sign
the Matrix is alive and well and sucking us into another existential
dead-end.

No no. That's marriage.

 

[Orvillain]

Fwiw, I don't even think about whether I'm sick of modelers or amps or whatever.
While I will likely modify my life setup some day soon for some reasons, the thought of ever going back to amps doesn't even remotely cross my mind anymore. Like never. Ever. It's just nothing to ever happen again. At best, I may improve my fullrange monitoring. Others than that, the ship has sailed once and forever. Should I ever use a "real" amp again, it'd be because it's supplied by the venue, is the only thing on a session or whatever.
I'm pretty sure there's some things I'd like when playing a real amp. And perhaps even prefer over a modeling based setup. But I couldn't even remotely think of enough reasons why these things would win over all the stuff coming along with modeling, especially when used in a FR monitoring setup.
IOW, modeling has solved sooo many issues for me, it's simply incredible.

You're the real life Peewee Herman of the amp modelling world.

 

[paisleywookiee]

What type of amp do you play?

When I played amps, I had Mesas and Orange.

 

[gy1900s]

Close! They are digital Preamps and effects, with a class A/B poweramp stage.

Nah, the DSP has been matched to an analog FET gain stage before the power amp.
The preamp is not completely digital. When you crank the gain off the panel, that's partly analog.

Close, again. You don't "download" the sneaky amps, they're already on there without a real option to select them provided you use the panel or their editor. There are third party editors that allow you to select these sneaky digital Preamps, although one of my favorites was crippled with one of the Mk2 FW updates.

You can't access the sneaky amps off the panel because they were not created for the Katana. You can save them as presets when building or downloading patches. To get the sneaky amps in the tone studio, you have to download a couple live sets. That may not be the case now, but it was a few years ago. You can also have access to them through downloading a 3rd party app.

Because the Katana shares software, the ability to utilize the sneaky amps exists, but it requires a download. You could argue they already exist on the katana software, but they sorta don't without the software to access them. I guess it depends on how you look at it.

Anyways, everything with the Katana seems like semantics. It's gotta be the most misunderstood amp of all time. People are still stuck on the whole concept of a "modeling amp," and that's just not really a thing like it used to be outside of older players doing covers because more players are choosing to get their sound from effects, not amp models. Because of that, amp models just don't matter as much as they used to. It doesn't matter if you're playing a simulation of a twin reverb or a jcm 800 if you're using a bunch of modulation effects like everyone does now.

 

[gy1900s]

When I played amps, I had Mesas and Orange.

Orange makes a very reliable solid state amp. In fact, it's one of the best solid state amps made IMO. Their higher end valve amps are decent but not bulletproof. All their hybrid stuff was/is a ticking time bomb just like Blackstar's hybrid stuff.

Mesa hasn't made a reliable amp since the 80's. My dad worked for Mesa Boogie in Petaluma CA for 17 years. He was one of the original cabinet makers there. He left Mesa Boogie in the mid 80's for a job at Boeing in Seattle because he said they no longer cared about anything but profit and he was sick of all the corners they were cutting. In fact, he said a large group of long time employees left over a few years for the same reason.


Mesa and Blackstar are similar in that they sound great, but a lot of their amps are just not reliable. I've seen more dual rectifiers and Mark series mesas take a dive on stage than any other amp.

If you you're now using software/digital stuff, you can't really trash any valve amp including a Harley Benton because they all sound better than what you're using. You know this to be true. I get it though. Hauling amps and effects around is a pain in the @$$