Amp footswitching options, in general

[Baba]

Spawned from the Badlander threads and my own thread about the 5150 Iconic.

As a live player, there are so many amps out there, that are limiting for me, because of the lack of footswitching options, and it's frustrating.

Some, like the Marshall DSL for example, have addressed this problem with the latest DSL40CR/100CR by adding midi. Perfect. You can now (IIRC) get to ALL of it's modes and save them with midi gear.

A LOT of other amps, (read: Badlander, 5150 Iconic, et al), do not have that kind of flexibility. The Badlander has 3 modes per channel, but you can only get to 2 of them when playing live. That's annoying.

I know, it adds cost, and a footswitch would have to be designed, etc., but I dunno, they manage to develop a $100 footswitch for a cheap amp like the BOSS Katana, you're telling me that is too much trouble for a more expensive amp? My Grandmeister Deluxe 40 has a dedicated footswitch that lets you choose preset or stompbox mode, and can accept expression pedals.

How about adding midi, like the aforementioned Marshalls, and giving people that choice?

Okay, I'll stop whining now.

 

[JiveTurkey]

The thing on the BL is I find myself wanting a mode switch. But then it comes with the whole "I need to adjust BMT, presence and gain now". Which tells me I should either setup the 2 channels and switch between them OR go back to modeler town I agree with you completely nonetheless.

 

[Baba]

The thing on the BL is I find myself wanting a mode switch. But then it comes with the whole "I need to adjust BMT, presence and gain now". Which tells me I should either setup the 2 channels and switch between them OR go back to modeler town I agree with you completely nonetheless.

And there are SO many amps like this.

 

[Fireproof]

Yep, true. And the problem is a real challenge when you are playing covers. That's why I've landed on modeling for the most part. So my tube amp use at this point, is more for fun / jams / etc., where the footswitching or knob-twiddling isn't a huge deal.

Would be cool to have the best of both. That is one thing I liked about the Katana was the big 5 button footswitch. If I could have that on the Badlander to call up any combo of channel/modes - that would be awesome!

 

[Bruce]

RJM amp gizmo? I dont remember the exact functionality of it but I know I have one buried somewhere. Worked great for getting my G System to do all the amp switching on my Triple Rec.

Plus RJM just rocks in general.

 

[Whizzinby]

That was my biggest gripe with the SLO. Epic tonez, but you couldn’t switch between the clean/crunch mode via foot switch. This was compounded further by not having independent volume/gain knobs for clean and crunch. So, to switch between the two modes you had to go physically readjust the volume/gain, then flip the mode switch. Want to go back? Reverse the process. Every. Single. Time.

$2,900 amp too lol

 

[Fireproof]

It really is crazy when you think about it. That type of footswitching innovation seems like it should be top of the list to keep the "toob snobs" coming back for more...

 

[James Freeman]

On a JCM800 to get clean you have to:
1. Turn off the SD-1.
2. Unplug and plug the cord to the low input jack.
3. Turn down the Gain.
4. Turn up the Master.
5. Readjust the tone stack.

I think my point is we are too aware of the convenience of MIDI capable amps and Modelers.

How about adding midi, like the aforementioned Marshalls, and giving people that choice?

On a Mesa that would like double the price?
I also think it's not very reliable, despite that the highest priced amps have MIDI.

 

[DrewJD82]

I used to use one of these with a Dual Rec and a 5150/XXX-

Voodoo Lab - Control Switcher

You still had to have a specific cable for the amp but they were only like $25 or something. And yeah, not having MIDI switching on any amp over $1000 is pretty silly to me. I’m guessing it must be a big enough of a cost to add in that it makes it not worth it because it seems like such a non-brainer to add to any amp.

And I totally get it with the multiple modes on Mesa’s and wanting to switch between them, that definitely played a part in me going with modeling because it’s like buying a Real Doll that only lets you use one hole.

 

[la szum]

To be fair to Mesa and EVH, I have never known an amp with modes that you can switch
between. Channels, yes. Modes not so much.

My Trem-O-Verb from the 90s is no different than the Badlander, or the Mark V I also have.
Like Drew mentioned, implementing MIDI into an amp not only raises the cost, but it also
means more warranty/repair costs will be in play. Manufacturers have to weigh those cost/benefit
equations and determine how much an initial price point increase is going to reduce market
share potential and lower the volume of sales. The higher the cost of an amp the lower the
volume of sales is going to be.

 

[la szum]

On a JCM800 to get clean you have to:
1. Turn off the SD-1.
2. Unplug and plug the cord to the low input jack.
3. Turn down the Gain.
4. Turn up the Master.
5. Readjust the tone stack.

I think my point is we are too aware of the convenience of MIDI capable amps and Modelers.



On a Mesa that would like double the price?
I also think it's not very reliable, despite that the highest priced amps have MIDI.

Not trying to quibble with you, but I can eliminate 3 of those steps.

1. Disengage Super Overdrive
2. Roll volume back on guitar

There's your Marshall Clean Channel.

 

[James Freeman]

So the real answer is, "It is neither easy nor cost effective to accomplish."

I'll throw in "nor reliable" in there.
It's microprocessor+memory chips, which are very likely to die decades before any of the glass and analog stuff.

 

[the swede]

Not trying to quibble with you, but I can eliminate 3 of those steps.

1. Disengage Super Overdrive
2. Roll volume back on guitar

There's your Marshall Clean Channel.

You could also have a pedal that takes everything down a notch, it helps.

 

[la szum]

What about his OP??? I didn't even know it existed. This could be the $400 answer. :)

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The MIDI Matrix can interface with existing MIDI Controllers, replace a Mesa amplifier’s multi-pin cabled factory footswitch and provide convenient remote control of your amp’s channels, modes and features under a one-button command. The Matrix allows for singular control of reverb, EQ and power and also provides the ability to group multiple features and even control up to three amplifiers at once

 

[Baba]

And I totally get it with the multiple modes on Mesa’s and wanting to switch between them, that definitely played a part in me going with modeling because it’s like buying a Real Doll that only lets you use one hole.

 

[Baba]

1. when you guys say "not reliable", there are plenty of rack units from the 80's, that have properly working midi jacks and controls, to this day. Where did this "unreliable" idea come from? The first Line 6 amp I had, from like 1996 had midi, the Flextones had midi, they should still work, etc.

2. With the external midi switchers, the problem is, if the amp's footswitch jack only ALLOWS you to go from channel to channel, you still won't be able to get to a mode. Those units will only do what the amp lets them do, so, useless in this regard.

 

[JiveTurkey]

That's Our Drew™

 

[sleewell]

one of the reasons i like helix into fx return so much is that it eliminates the amps footswitch

 

[Baba]

To be fair to Mesa and EVH, I have never known an amp with modes that you can switch
between. Channels, yes. Modes not so much.

My Trem-O-Verb from the 90s is no different than the Badlander, or the Mark V I also have.
Like Drew mentioned, implementing MIDI into an amp not only raises the cost, but it also
means more warranty/repair costs will be in play. Manufacturers have to weigh those cost/benefit
equations and determine how much an initial price point increase is going to reduce market
share potential and lower the volume of sales. The higher the cost of an amp the lower the
volume of sales is going to be.

Actually, Mesa/Boogie seems to perennially be the worst culprit of this, having multiple modes but only simplistic footswitches, but I think you may be right, as there aren't any/many mfgs that have all of their options footswitchable.

I guess I'm a little spoiled because my Hughes & Kettner Grandmeister 40 Deluxe has plenty of options (but no "modes"), you can get to with the supplied footswitch, and more with it's midi capability.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Actually, Mesa/Boogie seems to perennially be the worst culprit of this, having multiple modes but only simplistic footswitches, but I think you may be right, as there aren't any/many mfgs that have all of their options footswitchable.

I guess I'm a little spoiled because my Hughes & Kettner Grandmeister 40 Deluxe has plenty of options (but no "modes"), you can get to with the supplied footswitch, and more with it's midi capability.

Just got my RoadKing footswitch the other day