Amp footswitching options, in general

1. when you guys say "not reliable", there are plenty of rack units from the 80's, that have properly working midi jacks and controls, to this day. Where did this "unreliable" idea come from? The first Line 6 amp I had, from like 1996 had midi, the Flextones had midi, they should still work, etc.

2. With the external midi switchers, the problem is, if the amp's footswitch jack only ALLOWS you to go from channel to channel, you still won't be able to get to a mode. Those units will only do what the amp lets them do, so, useless in this regard.

Ahem..... that Mesa MIDI Matrix unit WILL allow you to access modes. At least Mesa says it will.
You plug your DIN out from the amp for the footswitch into the MIDI Matrix, and totally bypass
using your factory footswitch.

I'll post it again.

L84188000000000-00-500x500.jpg
 
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Just got my RoadKing footswitch the other day
mesa-boogie-lead-rhythm-footswitch-2516014.jpg






:hmm

Funny! When I had my first Mark III I had to have 2 of those tiny ass single footswitches.
Which meant two 1/4" cables to feed them to the front of the stage.

People forget that Mesa had that "straight out of Randall Smith's garage" feel for the
longest time.
 
Ahem..... that Mesa MIDI Matrix unit WILL allow you to access modes. At least Mesa says it will.
You plug your DIN out from the amp for the footswitch into the MIDI Matrix, and totally bypass
using your factory footswitch.

I'll post it again.

L84188000000000-00-500x500.jpg

How does that work with modes?

Edit: specifically with an amp WITHOUT a din output, (and just a 1/4” jack), for footswitch control, like, a Badlander for example?
 
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How does that work with modes?

Edit: specifically with an amp WITHOUT a din output, (and just a 1/4” jack), for footswitch control, like, a Badlander for example?

I have no idea, to be honest. I wasn't aware of the Matrix until today. Maybe contact Mesa.... because it
sure says in the ad copy that is what it does.

(Maybe they are referring to Mesa amps that have a DIN for the Footswitch, like the Mark V).
 
I think the main reason midi is not used extensively in amps is because is not cheap so for most products won't fit into the price point.

I understand that for amps like mesa boogies it's odd that they don't use it. They are pricey anyway.

I hate that the Helix (don't know about other modellers) has only one amp control output. There are more than one amp out there that have 2 switching inputs and you can't control them unless you additional gear.
 
How does that work with modes?

Edit: specifically with an amp WITHOUT a din output, (and just a 1/4” jack), for footswitch control, like, a Badlander for example?

You can't. Afaik the midi Matrix (like other similar products) only make the 2 1/4 inch and din out midi controllable therefore you can only switch what's switchable through the 1/4/din amp inputs.
 
Yeah, so this is one of the reasons I've ended up with my amp preferences that I do have. Over the years I was writing stuff where I needed a super clean tone, a slightly crunchy clean tone, a low-gain rhythm, and a high-gain rhythm.

I started off with the Laney VH100R. A two channel amp, but each channel has a built in boost. So you can quite easily get the 4 combinations above. I used the amp for a number of years and it sorta dialed in my preferences, and started my journey there.

Then I got a Fryette Sig:X because the Laney was a bit noisy, and it offered me 6 different sounds - 3 channels, but each with a footswitchable boost. The Fryette was quieter than the Laney too. But totally different sound.

Then I got a Marshall JVM410HJS - the Satriani one. They removed the crappy built in reverb from the regular JVM, changed the clean channel so it matched the one from the Marshall 6100 amp, made the two gain channels exactly the same, lowered the footswitch latency, and added built in noise-gates. WHAT. AN. AMP. It's frankly amazing how much stuff they've put into it. The footswitch it comes with has 6 switches on it, and you can program any of the 12 modes on the amp directly to the switches in preset mode. So it's basically like a proper 6 channel valve amp. Comes at a cost mind you, because you positively have to remember to set every single knob on the amp to where it needs to be!

I have a Diezel VH4 as well. 4 channel amp with midi. The Diezel D-Moll is a 3 channel amp with midi. The Diezel Hagen, again a 4 channel amp with midi.

I have an Orange Rockerverb MKIII too. It only has two channels, but they're quite flexible. With some clever usage of boost and OD pedals, you can get the same results as the above... but it is more of a ballache.

The reason - I think - that a lot of amps end up being 2 channel amps, with perhaps some modes, but effectively the topology is just 2 channels... is because that is the easiest thing to build. When you start thinking about midi and switching modes and stuff, you then need to fuck around encorporating micro controllers and coding for them into your amp design.

I've tried a ton of amps over the years:

- JCM800 - not flexible enough, but sound great.
- JCM900 - two channels, but you can't switch the modes on them.
- DSL100 - the older model didn't allow you any clever switching stuff. Haven't tried the newer ones.
- EVH5153 - The 50-watters are great and have midi switching. So 3 channel midi switching amp right there. But version 1 of this amp has a really fucking annoying volume jump between green and blue channels. They fixed it by giving you concentric pots on the version 2's.

Ultimately I think it is a combination of most guitarists not using that many channels, and also most amp manufacturers assuming you'll get where you want to get with the volume control and pedals.
 
Yeah, so this is one of the reasons I've ended up with my amp preferences that I do have. Over the years I was writing stuff where I needed a super clean tone, a slightly crunchy clean tone, a low-gain rhythm, and a high-gain rhythm.

I started off with the Laney VH100R. A two channel amp, but each channel has a built in boost. So you can quite easily get the 4 combinations above. I used the amp for a number of years and it sorta dialed in my preferences, and started my journey there.

Then I got a Fryette Sig:X because the Laney was a bit noisy, and it offered me 6 different sounds - 3 channels, but each with a footswitchable boost. The Fryette was quieter than the Laney too. But totally different sound.

Then I got a Marshall JVM410HJS - the Satriani one. They removed the crappy built in reverb from the regular JVM, changed the clean channel so it matched the one from the Marshall 6100 amp, made the two gain channels exactly the same, lowered the footswitch latency, and added built in noise-gates. WHAT. AN. AMP. It's frankly amazing how much stuff they've put into it. The footswitch it comes with has 6 switches on it, and you can program any of the 12 modes on the amp directly to the switches in preset mode. So it's basically like a proper 6 channel valve amp. Comes at a cost mind you, because you positively have to remember to set every single knob on the amp to where it needs to be!

I have a Diezel VH4 as well. 4 channel amp with midi. The Diezel D-Moll is a 3 channel amp with midi. The Diezel Hagen, again a 4 channel amp with midi.

I have an Orange Rockerverb MKIII too. It only has two channels, but they're quite flexible. With some clever usage of boost and OD pedals, you can get the same results as the above... but it is more of a ballache.

The reason - I think - that a lot of amps end up being 2 channel amps, with perhaps some modes, but effectively the topology is just 2 channels... is because that is the easiest thing to build. When you start thinking about midi and switching modes and stuff, you then need to f**k around encorporating micro controllers and coding for them into your amp design.

I've tried a ton of amps over the years:

- JCM800 - not flexible enough, but sound great.
- JCM900 - two channels, but you can't switch the modes on them.
- DSL100 - the older model didn't allow you any clever switching stuff. Haven't tried the newer ones.
- EVH5153 - The 50-watters are great and have midi switching. So 3 channel midi switching amp right there. But version 1 of this amp has a really f*****g annoying volume jump between green and blue channels. They fixed it by giving you concentric pots on the version 2's.

Ultimately I think it is a combination of most guitarists not using that many channels, and also most amp manufacturers assuming you'll get where you want to get with the volume control and pedals.
Nice write up. Interesting thst it all started with the VH. I wanted to like thst amp more than i did. Despite the fact that it was a good amp. Always wanted to try the JVM. Have you tried the Invective by chance?
 
I see what you're saying, @Baba , but I've never felt the need to switch modes on a Mesa, as there's usually only one mode I really like anyway, at least with the Mesas I've tried/owned.

In general I treat any amp as a two-channel (crunch/clean) and then get a variety of gain/sound/feel from boost pedals. (I've also never used the third high-gain/red channel on any Mesa I've owned.)

I briefly owned a TC50 and thought the midi would be so cool, but I actually like the bone-simple switching of my Electra Dyne better. I do use a Suhr Micro Midi + FM9 to switch it though, not the Mesa footswitch.

On that topic, the Mesa footswitch is annoying if you do want to use the third channel, as you go from clean on one switch to either crunch or lead on the second switch, but don't know which one of the latter two that it will be.
 
Nice write up. Interesting thst it all started with the VH. I wanted to like thst amp more than i did. Despite the fact that it was a good amp. Always wanted to try the JVM. Have you tried the Invective by chance?
I haven't actually no!
 
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