Opinions on tube amp attenuators
- Thread starter Ibanez_76
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And speaker iRs.
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Honestly if you have to play to the point where your strings are clearly audible, tone chasing is almost entirely out the window anyway. I’d go for the cheapest solution, or a small watt practice amp, and save the rest of the cheddar for your “family out of town, let’s peel paint” rig.
That said the PowerStations are the cream of the crop, but it’s a not-cheap option if you’re just using it to choke the shit out of an amp to a whisper.
That said the PowerStations are the cream of the crop, but it’s a not-cheap option if you’re just using it to choke the shit out of an amp to a whisper.
Achilles
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From 8:00 am till 8:00 pm I can be as noisy as watching a very loud movie with surround sound and a subwoofer.
Not exactly whisper levels.
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From 8:00 am till 8:00 pm I can be as noisy as watching a very loud movie with surround sound and a subwoofer.
Not exactly whisper levels.
For sure. I think if you’re more looking to knock the edge off or get to moderate levels then something like a PS is awesome. But once you get down to levels where you are clearly hearing each note you pick acoustically, (like the OP said) comparing or contrasting attenuators (or tone chasing, in all but the broadest of senses) becomes a bit trivial. I’d go for the easiest and cheapest solution in that situation.
JasonE
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I have a PS-100. I didn't want to compromise and end up with something that changed my tone to a point that I would hate using it. I can say it does a very good job and I can also use it to power a cab with my modelers if I want and it is tube power. I love being able to buy something that does multiple things and does them all well. For me, it was well worth the money.
Achilles
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laxu
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I agree completely. Don't be dumb like me, who has owned:
- Multiple Power Stations
- Other attenuators
- Power scalable amps
- Master volume amps
- Digital modelers
- Eminence FDM speaker that can reduce its sensitivity
This was never really the scenario for me and I was just chasing great tones at "moderately loud" volumes, but I did try out the really low volume scenario too. Once the volumes you need are <80 dB @ 1m you are in Severe Compromise town, population: a lot of people playing at home.
If your situation is more like "I got this great amp but it needs to be turned way too loud to sound great" then an attenuator can be a good solution to take if from "obnoxious volume" to "comfortably loud". Attenuators are a compromise no matter what but the best reactive attenuators can be a small enough compromise that it's not going to bug you compared to running direct to a cab.
Otherwise I'd simply go for modern master volume and/or power scalable amps. By modern I mean something designed fully around preamp gain, voiced to sound great without poweramp drive. Those will just get linearly louder as you turn up the volume and everything that changes tonally has nothing to do with what the amp does, but what goes on in the room and how that sound hitting your ears perceives it.
As for the Fryette PS, while it's probably the best product of its kind on the market, I've got complaints. Both the PS-2 and PS-100 had noisy fans which tended to be a bit annoying at lower volume. That's understandable as it's a very compact tube amp after all.
The bigger problem is that Fryette support sucks.
My PS-100 had issues with 130-180 Hz idle rumble that Fryette's support basically handwaved as "normal" and then stopped responding to my emails - and we were like one reply in at that point. This despite the PS-2 not doing that, despite the issue being present in multiple locations and my actual tube amps being dead silent.
Then there's the whole debacle of dropping the PS-100 on its feet from about 10 cm height. I was packing it in a box, and my hand slipped. My fault entirely. Zero visible damage, even opened it up and no internal damage. It just no longer passed audio except in bypass mode so the load still worked and power came on.
Took it to a tech, who could not figure out what was wrong with it because they couldn't get schematics from Fryette and didn't want me to incur a ton of bench hours. Tubes tested fine.
Part of the lack of Fryette communication was COVID issues Fryette was having at the time, but then their support just forgot to answer their emails and claim they never got an email from my tech. Because email is sooo hard to track...
I've still got a busted PS-100 that I contemplate getting repaired, if I can get Fryette support to actually guarantee they'll send the schematics to the tech. I got my money back from insurance so it's not a big deal for me, but I don't see myself buying any more Fryette products.
There is no such thing as an attenuator that will make a guitar amp sound good at low volume. In my experience with attenuators, they sound good down to about -12 dB (1/8 power), at most, before they start to sound really awful. -6 dB (1/4 power) is usually a good spot. Attenuators are useful tools, but they are not magic.
Volume is an essential component of electric guitar tone. The best you can hope for at low volume is something that sounds like a decent recording of an electric guitar amp. Personally, I find that if the amp isn't loud enough to overcome the acoustic sound of the strings, there's no hope of it not distracting me.
What I use when I want to play at levels that won't disturb the neighbors is a DSM & Humboldt Electronics Simplifier, into my recording workstation and out through my nearfield monitors or headphones.
gearJunkie
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I built one of the Type M2 reactive attenuators to tame my NMV amps and it has worked out well. The builds are about $100 in parts.Here you go!
Simple Attenuators - Design And Testing
Background Passive attenuators are wired between the amp output and the speakers. Their function is to absorb most of the output power of the amp, feeding a smaller amount to the speaker itself. This allows the amp output stage to run at higher power, letting the glorious tone of a good valve...www.marshallforum.com
I use a Suhr Reactive Load when I want to load my amps down and use IRs.
Achilles
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Too broad brush a statement.
Which amp and attenuator and how many dB are we talking?
Diezel Herbert cranked then reduced to conversation levels? - no attenuator can do that and sound good.
20 watt Soldano Astro reduced by about half (-10dB)? - that's doable with a good unit.
Sister, but thanks.100%
Preach it brother!
And welcome to the forum.
It's not too broad a brush, if you have the experience. I've been at this for over 30 years.
First of all, the trope that -10 dB is "half the volume" is not scientifically supported, despite the fact that it is so often repeated as if it were true. Half the SPL is by mathematical definition -6 dB.
Second of all, do you have any idea how loud 20 W is into a typical guitar loudspeaker driver? The Celestion Vintage 30, for instance, has a sensitivity of 100 dB @ 1 W @ 1 m. 2 W is 103 dB, 4 W is 106 dB, 8 W is 109 dB, 16 W is 112 dB. Reduce that by -10 dB, and you are still playing at 102 dB, which is *frackin loud*, even for live gig levels, definitely not "conversation levels".
laxu
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In my experience the 10 dB matches pretty well with "double the perceived volume", though to be fair it can be hard to gauge the volume level when it's really loud. Easier in the <100 dB @ 1m range for sure.
My experience is that with any amp if you want to get it to low volumes you need anything from 15-24 dB attenuation, depending on the amp, speakers, room etc.
I don't agree with your assessment that anything above 12 dB reduction starts to sound bad. What changes is your perception of the sound in the room as the volume goes down. If you were to record the amp at various reduction levels, normalize for volume and listen back it would sound very much the same. So it's not the attenuator or amp doing something different in this scenario.
Totally agree with this. My experience is that you need about 85-90 dB @ 1m, and ideally more like 95 dB @ 1m for any amp to sound great. Past that it just gets louder, not better. The world's best attenuator won't help if you are looking for <80 dB @ 1m volumes.
I do the same with the Axe-Fx 3 or Strymon Iridium. In stereo with nearfield speakers you can drop the volumes down closer to 80 dB @ 1m and still get a great sound because you are at ear level with the speakers. For really low volumes I'd rather use headphones.
It's also cool that Fractal has some simulation for what happens when you drive speakers real hard, or for the acoustic reinforcement of guitar + loud guitar speakers. Those can help you get at least better tones into headphones where you lose that reinforcement loop.
Achilles
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Achilles
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I started working in medical high-tech in 1981, switched over to audio in 1986, and retired in 2020.
"My ePenis is bigger than your ePenis.... my ePenis is bigger than yours!"
Achilles
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Totally got it the first time.
It's just that you mentioned ePenis and I couldn't help but repeat it a few more times cause it's such a bitching word.
gearJunkie
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Life Eats Life
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