With tools like the VP4 and HX Effects, why have there been no modern advancements in 4CM cabling tech?

Updated my 4CM cable a bit. I went with 1 TRS cable for the effects loop and 1 TS cable for the front. So it's only 2 cables in the loom for audio, then the MIDI and power. The splitter I bought for the end had a longer cable than expected, so after I put some 1" heat shrink tubing at the ends of the loom, I still wrapped back the TRS to TS spliter a bit. Came out great, similar to what I had before but 1 cable less in the loom now. If I ever played this live I'd still probably just throw the VP4 on top of the amp and run a MIDI controller out front with 7pin MIDI.
20241221_202441.jpg
20241221_202451.jpg
 
Cb8 said:
My two cents.. I use a 4cm with my suhr pt15 and what I did was to buy one of those from thomann and replace the xlrs with TS and TRS plugs. Works quite fine to me.

www.thomann.de

pro snake 405 Multicore

pro snake 405 Multicore, hochwertiges Multicore, 4fach XLR female auf XLR male, Kanäle farblich und nummerisch markiert, Länge 5 m
www.thomann.de www.thomann.de
Click to expand...
Yeah a snake is essential. I bought the CBI Livewinder, which already comes with the 1/4" plugs. I have a few custom made ones as well.
 
This is an interesting discussion. I'm learning stuff! Hell, I didn't even know that '4cm' was nomenclature for the 4 cable method - something I actually knew about having done it.

Being the primitive studio rat/hermit I've been for the past few years, I hadn't realized that half of the options for live use mentioned here were even a thing!

I've used multipair cables (like snakes but compacted, with only one rubber coating instead of however many pairs there are) in my studio for maybe 33 years. In fact, the Mogami multipair cable connecting my mic box to my interface is probably 25 years old, and has never failed. It was the same with the ones connecting to my analog desk and tape machines back in the day. Damn things were dependable!

Would that work for connecting pedalboards, racks, amps, etc? Seems like it would but I'm not sure the capacitance would be low enough not to suck tone. I've simply never tried it!

On the Bluetooth question, I don't think I'd want to depend on it, even for studio sessions - if clients were present. I figure if it can become disconnected, it WILL become disconnected, and right in front of a demanding ad client to boot. So in that way it's similar to the issues confronting live show players.

Being a diabetic, I use a 2024 model bluetooth blood glucose sensor that connects to my phone or a separate meter via Bluetooth. I can be next to it and lose the connection. 30 feet is the spec for the glucose sensor, so yes, it can have issues.

My H9s sometimes lose their Bluetooth connection if I'm only a few feet away (granted that bluetooth has made advancements since the H9s were created).

I agree that it's a great thing for certain uses, and maybe even for music, but I wouldn't want to stake a live performance on it just yet.

Heck, not only would I want some kind of copper cable, I'd want redundancy!

Call me antediluvian, or educate me on what's really what!

I do know several studios that have no issues connecting the various rooms via CAT 5 or better cable using protocols like Dante. Something like that might be workable, but the boxes still have to work without issues, and you still have to make the analog connections.

I use an 8-Amp, 4-Cab switcher made by a Swiss company called KHE, and it has made my studio life easier with soft touch electronic, noiseless switching, MIDI if I want, and no tone suck. I went to putting all of my effects in front of the amp (I started doing this 15 or so years ago), though they make switchers that can switch between 4cm effects loops.

In any case, I run one audio cable from the pedalboard, a power cable, have them separately wrapped in Techflex so they don't tangle and they lay flat. But as I said, I realize that studios are a lot less pressured than a live show.

It's enough that I practically piss my pants when clients are present and they expect me to work out a guitar part on the spot (I'm more of a keyboard player!). I would freak out worrying about connections to gear.
 
Desertdweller said:
Updated my 4CM cable a bit. I went with 1 TRS cable for the effects loop and 1 TS cable for the front. So it's only 2 cables in the loom for audio, then the MIDI and power. The splitter I bought for the end had a longer cable than expected, so after I put some 1" heat shrink tubing at the ends of the loom, I still wrapped back the TRS to TS spliter a bit. Came out great, similar to what I had before but 1 cable less in the loom now. If I ever played this live I'd still probably just throw the VP4 on top of the amp and run a MIDI controller out front with 7pin MIDI.
View attachment 35099View attachment 35100
Click to expand...
A sweet, clean rig! Gotta love that. Beautiful!
 
This simple home setup is what works well enough in the context of what I do. There's nothing to it, of course. Anyone can put together something every bit as effective for the price of a computer and a little bit of hardware.

Looks more like someone's weird-ass den than a proper studio, but it's worked for lots of national and international ad campaigns over the past 15 years. I've figured it ain't broke, doesn't pay to be fixin' it.

However, I call it Studio Craptastic - for obvious reasons.

"Laz, do you like gladiator movies?"

"Ignore the Roman helmet. A gift from my brother, due to my interest in history, that my wife won't let me keep in the living space part of the house."

Except for the amps, I've been working in the box for about 15 years.

I previously had lots of analog and rack gear - five 20 space racks full of stuff, analog console, lots of synths, and tape machines running in sync for video, audio, mixdown, etc. My old studio was larger, obviously; this one's about 33' x 17.5' and unlike the old place (downsized when all the kids went off to college), it's a single, integrated room, doesn't have a dedicated recording booth.

What happened was that as competitors moved into the box, they could turn around same-day, we-need-it-right-now, changes to accommodate picture changes (sometimes these happen 3-4 times a day as I'm composing) a lot faster than I could.

Ad agency expectations changed. I had to keep up. So gradually I transitioned to a software-based system.

I've gotten used to this kind of simple setup, but I do miss the old gear from time to time. It sounded great, had a real vibe. 'In the box', there are a few sacrifices.

Granted, all this seems to work well, but as I'm reading this thread, I'm thinking maybe I'm missing out on some good ideas that could be ported over to what I do from your live show or studio experiences?

I'm a decent enough guitar player for a 30 second ad, but I'm mostly a keyboard player. When I need a better player, which occasionally happens (though people seem to want electronic stuff without guitars more and more), I hire someone who's actually better than me at guitar (that would be everyone here!).

Workstation area; mic preamps, DI box and other smaller gizmos are in a shelving rack under the keyboard on the left that faces the chair and doesn't show in the pic.

IMG_5883.jpeg


Recording area:

IMG_5935 2.jpeg


The RealTraps bass and first reflection traps do an excellent job of reducing standing waves and comb filtering - they replaced some ASC tube trap stuff.

The room would be a lot less useful without them, though for whatever reason it started out as a good sounding space, so there wasn't that much to do - which of course didn't stop me from experimenting like crazy every five minutes! I moved mic stands out of the way for pics.

Detail of nook for the amps and cab; there's a KHE switcher and a Furman power supply with a 45 Amp reservoir in the rack. The cables to and from the pedalboard are partially wound up. I can move it to the workstation area with the same cables.

IMG_5885.jpeg
 
Last edited:
Orvillain said:
Amazing setup @László !
Click to expand...
Thanks!

I don't want to minimize it too much because it works, but it's so simple. It's just a room with some doodads that literally everyone here could put together in a day or two.

Back when I put the original studio together at my old place, studio furniture wasn't available, so my brother and I made what you see in the pics with the black oak and maple edging. That was the only time consuming part. We had to weld together the legs, which he was good at.

30 years ago that was a lot easier than now for me! Today you can buy great stuff for less than the cost of the materials that went into what we made.
 
Last edited:
László said:
This simple home setup is what works well enough in the context of what I do. There's nothing to it, of course. Anyone can put together something every bit as effective for the price of a computer and a little bit of hardware.

Looks more like someone's weird-ass den than a proper studio, but it's worked for lots of national and international ad campaigns over the past 15 years. I've figured it ain't broke, doesn't pay to be fixin' it.

However, I call it Studio Craptastic - for obvious reasons.

"Laz, do you like gladiator movies?"

"Ignore the Roman helmet. A gift from my brother, due to my interest in history, that my wife won't let me keep in the living space part of the house."

Except for the amps, I've been working in the box for about 15 years.

I previously had lots of analog and rack gear - five 20 space racks full of stuff, analog console, lots of synths, and tape machines running in sync for video, audio, mixdown, etc. My old studio was larger, obviously; this one's about 33' x 17.5' and unlike the old place (downsized when all the kids went off to college), it's a single, integrated room, doesn't have a dedicated recording booth.

What happened was that as competitors moved into the box, they could turn around same-day, we-need-it-right-now, changes to accommodate picture changes (sometimes these happen 3-4 times a day as I'm composing) a lot faster than I could.

Ad agency expectations changed. I had to keep up. So gradually I transitioned to a software-based system.

I've gotten used to this kind of simple setup, but I do miss the old gear from time to time. It sounded great, had a real vibe. 'In the box', there are a few sacrifices.

Granted, all this seems to work well, but as I'm reading this thread, I'm thinking maybe I'm missing out on some good ideas that could be ported over to what I do from your live show or studio experiences?

I'm a decent enough guitar player for a 30 second ad, but I'm mostly a keyboard player. When I need a better player, which occasionally happens (though people seem to want electronic stuff without guitars more and more), I hire someone who's actually better than me at guitar (that would be everyone here!).

Workstation area; mic preamps, DI box and other smaller gizmos are in a shelving rack under the keyboard on the left that faces the chair and doesn't show in the pic.

View attachment 35226

Recording area:

View attachment 35227

The RealTraps bass and first reflection traps do an excellent job of reducing standing waves and comb filtering - they replaced some ASC tube trap stuff.

The room would be a lot less useful without them, though for whatever reason it started out as a good sounding space, so there wasn't that much to do - which of course didn't stop me from experimenting like crazy every five minutes! I moved mic stands out of the way for pics.

Detail of nook for the amps and cab; there's a KHE switcher and a Furman power supply with a 45 Amp reservoir in the rack. The cables to and from the pedalboard are partially wound up. I can move it to the workstation area with the same cables.

View attachment 35228
Click to expand...
All this amazingness and not one 4x12 in sight. :hmm
 
László said:
This simple home setup is what works well enough in the context of what I do. There's nothing to it, of course. Anyone can put together something every bit as effective for the price of a computer and a little bit of hardware.

Looks more like someone's weird-ass den than a proper studio, but it's worked for lots of national and international ad campaigns over the past 15 years. I've figured it ain't broke, doesn't pay to be fixin' it.

However, I call it Studio Craptastic - for obvious reasons.

"Laz, do you like gladiator movies?"

"Ignore the Roman helmet. A gift from my brother, due to my interest in history, that my wife won't let me keep in the living space part of the house."

Except for the amps, I've been working in the box for about 15 years.

I previously had lots of analog and rack gear - five 20 space racks full of stuff, analog console, lots of synths, and tape machines running in sync for video, audio, mixdown, etc. My old studio was larger, obviously; this one's about 33' x 17.5' and unlike the old place (downsized when all the kids went off to college), it's a single, integrated room, doesn't have a dedicated recording booth.

What happened was that as competitors moved into the box, they could turn around same-day, we-need-it-right-now, changes to accommodate picture changes (sometimes these happen 3-4 times a day as I'm composing) a lot faster than I could.

Ad agency expectations changed. I had to keep up. So gradually I transitioned to a software-based system.

I've gotten used to this kind of simple setup, but I do miss the old gear from time to time. It sounded great, had a real vibe. 'In the box', there are a few sacrifices.

Granted, all this seems to work well, but as I'm reading this thread, I'm thinking maybe I'm missing out on some good ideas that could be ported over to what I do from your live show or studio experiences?

I'm a decent enough guitar player for a 30 second ad, but I'm mostly a keyboard player. When I need a better player, which occasionally happens (though people seem to want electronic stuff without guitars more and more), I hire someone who's actually better than me at guitar (that would be everyone here!).

Workstation area; mic preamps, DI box and other smaller gizmos are in a shelving rack under the keyboard on the left that faces the chair and doesn't show in the pic.

View attachment 35226

Recording area:

View attachment 35227

The RealTraps bass and first reflection traps do an excellent job of reducing standing waves and comb filtering - they replaced some ASC tube trap stuff.

The room would be a lot less useful without them, though for whatever reason it started out as a good sounding space, so there wasn't that much to do - which of course didn't stop me from experimenting like crazy every five minutes! I moved mic stands out of the way for pics.

Detail of nook for the amps and cab; there's a KHE switcher and a Furman power supply with a 45 Amp reservoir in the rack. The cables to and from the pedalboard are partially wound up. I can move it to the workstation area with the same cables.

View attachment 35228
Click to expand...
Forget the equipment, I'm more intrigued how you keep it so clean and organized! :rofl

Seriously though, nice setup. :beer
 
FuzzyAce said:
Forget the equipment, I'm more intrigued how you keep it so clean and organized! :rofl
Click to expand...
It's weird, isn't it?

This now only happens once in a blue moon, but it was once the case that ad clients would come over for most sessions.

They were used to audio post sessions in zillion dollar rooms, and the rooms were always gorgeous, pristine, etc., with a long counter for clients to sit behind, a kitchen, servers, the whole nine yards.

Easy for them with a big staff. I only had me.

When I got started in my former place, I figured it was what they expected, so I got into the habit of keeping the space OCD clean, running as much wiring as possible behind the gear, with wall and floor boxes to plug into, and so on.

But I haven't had a client come for a session in maybe two years, so the only reason for this habit is orneriness on my part. However, there is a dirty little secret:

I have a cavernous, incredibly disorganized storage/HVAC room right next to the studio where the Great Gods of Mystery & Wonder make stuff completely disappear forever! Doesn't matter what I put in there, I can never find it again.

The unused stuff that most studios have sitting around got lost in there. I even have a lot of it in those semi-clear plastic bins on wire shelves, but it's such a PITA to take them down from the shelves and peek into them that I'm afraid to even get started.
 
Last edited:
László said:
It's weird, isn't it?

This now only happens once in a blue moon, but it was once the case that ad clients would come over for most sessions.

They were used to audio post sessions in zillion dollar rooms, and the rooms were always gorgeous, pristine, etc., with a long counter for clients to sit behind, a kitchen, servers, the whole nine yards.

Easy for them with a big staff. I only had me.

When I got started in my former place, I figured it was what they expected, so I got into the habit of keeping the space OCD clean, running as much wiring as possible behind the gear, with wall and floor boxes to plug into, and so on.

But I haven't had a client come for a session in maybe two years, so the only reason for this habit is orneriness on my part. However, there is a dirty little secret:

I have a cavernous, incredibly disorganized storage/HVAC room right next to the studio where the Great Gods of Mystery & Wonder make stuff completely disappear forever! Doesn't matter what I put in there, I can never find it again.

The unused stuff that most studios have sitting around got lost in there. I even have a lot of it in those semi-clear plastic bins on wire shelves, but it's such a PITA to take them down from the shelves and peek into them that I'm afraid to even get started.
Click to expand...
Haha, there has to be that one room where things can spill over into. It's hard to get rid of "useful" equipment. It's always in the back of my head "well I may need this for this, and one day for this?" :roflI envy those who are true minimalists and can just get rid of stuff.
I can organize my music room pretty well, but as soon as I put real work time into making music it gets out of hand real quick!
 
FuzzyAce said:
Haha, there has to be that one room where things can spill over into. It's hard to get rid of "useful" equipment. It's always in the back of my head "well I may need this for this, and one day for this?" :roflI envy those who are true minimalists and can just get rid of stuff.
I can organize my music room pretty well, but as soon as I put real work time into making music it gets out of hand real quick!
Click to expand...
It's shameful what I have in there, just sitting around.

It's not that I want to keep it. I've offered it to friends, for free. No one, literally no one, wants it. And it's all really good stuff!
 
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