Wishlist Modeling Amp: Catalyst Pro

[paisleywookiee]

Yeah good point, needs the direct controls and the HX sounds of course (instead of XT/HD models). But looks like the stereo full range setup was there.

Oh yeah this amp shouldn’t require an editor/app to use!

If no editor required, then it needs to be a simple amp. No effects, or just reverb. The minute you get into effects, you either need an app, or the effects control is heavily gimped. This is why I dislike the Katana, and all these other amps with built in effects.

 

[Sascha Franck]

If no editor required, then it needs to be a simple amp. No effects, or just reverb. The minute you get into effects, you either need an app, or the effects control is heavily gimped. This is why I dislike the Katana, and all these other amps with built in effects.

With enough encoders on board, you could have it both ways. The most relevant parameters to adjust things to accomodate a given situation should be all exposed.

As an example:

- 2 x amp and boost: Amp type, gain, BMT, volume, boost gain, boost level. Anything beyond that could be covered either by secondary encoder functions or through an editor. 8 controls per channel in total.

- FX section with, say, delay and reverb. Time, feedback, mix for the delay, decay and mix for the reverb might already be sufficient as permanently exposed parameters. That's 5 more encoders. If one really wanted, there could be a modulation section, too, exposed parameters would be type, speed and mix.

- Master section. Ideally featuring a simple (possibly pre-adjustable) B/T master EQ and output volume.

That'd be 27 encoders in total. Yeah, seems like a lot, but in the end it'd still be way less than on any mediocre pedalboard.

And as the entire amp should be programmable as well, you could either use that programmability for, well, what it is (as with any programmable digital device) or just save a bunch of "2-channel-plus-boost-and-the-most-common-FX" WYSIWYG setups.

I would possibly be able to play almost all my gigs with just a handful of 2-channel layouts already.

Make all this super lightweight, so you could use a strap and carry it over your shoulder, on the train, on a bicycle luggage rack, whatever.

As said, I'd buy that in a hearbeat and pay decent money for it.

 

[paisleywookiee]

With enough encoders on board, you could have it both ways. The most relevant parameters to adjust things to accomodate a given situation should be all exposed.

As an example:

- 2 x amp and boost: Amp type, gain, BMT, volume, boost gain, boost level. Anything beyond that could be covered either by secondary encoder functions or through an editor. 8 controls per channel in total.

- FX section with, say, delay and reverb. Time, feedback, mix for the delay, decay and mix for the reverb might already be sufficient as permanently exposed parameters. That's 5 more encoders. If one really wanted, there could be a modulation section, too, exposed parameters would be type, speed and mix.

- Master section. Ideally featuring a simple (possibly pre-adjustable) B/T master EQ and output volume.

That'd be 27 encoders in total. Yeah, seems like a lot, but in the end it'd still be way less than on any mediocre pedalboard.

And as the entire amp should be programmable as well, you could either use that programmability for, well, what it is (as with any programmable digital device) or just save a bunch of "2-channel-plus-boost-and-the-most-common-FX" WYSIWYG setups.

I would possibly be able to play almost all my gigs with just a handful of 2-channel layouts already.

Make all this super lightweight, so you could use a strap and carry it over your shoulder, on the train, on a bicycle luggage rack, whatever.

As said, I'd buy that in a hearbeat and pay decent money for it.

Ick. None of that appeals to me. A pedalboard with a BluGuitar Amp1 sounds better.

 

[dbagchee]

If no editor required, then it needs to be a simple amp. No effects, or just reverb. The minute you get into effects, you either need an app, or the effects control is heavily gimped. This is why I dislike the Katana, and all these other amps with built in effects.

Yeah I’d be good with just reverb or even a super simple fx knob like on the pod express for delay and or reverb.

 

[laxu]

With enough encoders on board, you could have it both ways. The most relevant parameters to adjust things to accomodate a given situation should be all exposed.

As an example:

- 2 x amp and boost: Amp type, gain, BMT, volume, boost gain, boost level. Anything beyond that could be covered either by secondary encoder functions or through an editor. 8 controls per channel in total.

- FX section with, say, delay and reverb. Time, feedback, mix for the delay, decay and mix for the reverb might already be sufficient as permanently exposed parameters. That's 5 more encoders. If one really wanted, there could be a modulation section, too, exposed parameters would be type, speed and mix.

- Master section. Ideally featuring a simple (possibly pre-adjustable) B/T master EQ and output volume.

That'd be 27 encoders in total. Yeah, seems like a lot, but in the end it'd still be way less than on any mediocre pedalboard.

You don't need that many encoders if you make the channel knobs do double duty for effects.

I point again to the best modeler design ever made, the Yamaha DG amps.

Those used motorized knobs to represent both amp and fx settings, and the fx settings were simple 1-3 knob per effect things. A modern version could use LED rings with infinite rotaries, or small displays to show the value.

Also note the separate high/low mid knobs. Another sadly underused feature on guitar amps.

 

[Sascha Franck]

A pedalboard with a BluGuitar Amp1 sounds better.

Well, so far we've only talked about the concept, not exactly about the sound.
And personally, I just like the idea of one "core" box that is expandable in all directions while still working standalone, too. Amp1 isn't that (not exactly fullrange compatible for a start).

 

[Sascha Franck]

You don't need that many encoders if you make the channel knobs do double duty for effects.

Well, I'd prefer them to be WYSIWYG all the time. And I actually sometimes adjust parameters on channels I'm not playing (such as in raising the clean level while I'm on the driven channel)

I point again to the best modeler design ever made, the Yamaha DG amps.

Not bad but see above. Besides, I'd rather have endless encoders than motorized ones, simply because the latter can fail more easily.

 

[ragingplatypi]

Whatever Line 6 makes next, a revolutionary feature would be knobs and switches that are easily replaced.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Whatever Line 6 makes next, a revolutionary feature would be knobs and switches that are easily replaced.

It'd be even more revolutionary if they didn't even require replacement. It's called "the BOSS way".

 

[ian_dissonance]

So we went from “catalyst pro” to something that would probably cost more than the Powrcab 212+, lol. I’m assuming nobody wants to pay $2k for this, though.

 

[Baba]

I think the "pro" level/price point for modeling amps is a non-starter/non-seller, as evidenced by the market.

Once you get past the $500 mark, now you're into a used POD GO or Stomp, and decent "FRFR", which will then give you MUCH more flexibility than an amp in that price range would.

 

[timbuck3]

You don't need that many encoders if you make the channel knobs do double duty for effects.

I point again to the best modeler design ever made, the Yamaha DG amps.

Those used motorized knobs to represent both amp and fx settings, and the fx settings were simple 1-3 knob per effect things. A modern version could use LED rings with infinite rotaries, or small displays to show the value.

Also note the separate high/low mid knobs. Another sadly underused feature on guitar amps.

Was not impressed with that amp when I had one. Sure it was built like a tank and as heavy as a tube amp and maybe even heavier but the tones didn’t wow me like the blue box amps later did

 

[ian_dissonance]

I think the "pro" level/price point for modeling amps is a non-starter/non-seller, as evidenced by the market.

Once you get past the $500 mark, now you're into a used POD GO or Stomp, and decent ""FRFR"", which will then give you MUCH more flexibility than an amp in that price range would.

To me it feels like once you’ve got everything on board to make it as “pro” as an HX Floor/Rack (all the I/O, enough knobs/programability/worthwhile display options) and have an even decent amplifier/cabinet/speaker combo you’re going to be a price point where most users are going to spend just a little more for the various components and ultimately better speaker system, or they won’t be interested at all because they want a grab and go combo for $500. The Firehawk 1500 was technically the “pro” version amp of that generation and they did not do well. Don’t think I ever saw one outside of a GC.

 

[ragingplatypi]

I think the "pro" level/price point for modeling amps is a non-starter/non-seller, as evidenced by the market.

Once you get past the $500 mark, now you're into a used POD GO or Stomp, and decent ""FRFR"", which will then give you MUCH more flexibility than an amp in that price range would.

This.
The market seems to be saying that above a certain price point you’re using multi effects and whatever your amplification system of choice is OR you’re getting a Fender Tonemaster amp.

 

[Jarick]

This.
The market seems to be saying that above a certain price point you’re using multi effects and whatever your amplification system of choice is OR you’re getting a Fender Tonemaster amp.

That seems about right!

It makes more sense to break out the processing and the amplification because you can mix and match. If you want a Pod Go plus a 2x12 Powercab Plus, you can do that. If you want a Helix Floor and a 1x12 Powercab basic model, you can do that.

I'm a little surprised we haven't seen more companies do the Tonemaster thing, like a Plexi or AC30.

 

[dbagchee]

I guess what I’m saying is that the Tonemasters need some competition! With a closed back

Edit to add that I want a guitar speaker in this amp, not a PA speaker.

 

[Byrdman]

Mine works great using my Stomp XL in Power Amp Mode. I know you can control the 100w & 200w models with midi as well if you dont have a Stomp, but I have not done it. The 50w needs midi host since it is through the usb.

 

[ian_dissonance]

I guess what I’m saying is that the Tonemasters need some competition! With a closed back

Edit to add that I want a guitar speaker in this amp, not a PA speaker.

I don’t think any of the modeling amp companies are going to make a single sound amp and have it be anywhere the price of the TM series (which are hilariously overpriced, IMO). The Kat and the Cat are direct competitors (with more/better features and a much better price point). Maybe Marshall could pull off a one-trick pony digital amp and price it close to the TM, lol.

 

[Jarick]

I don't think ALL of the TM amps are overpriced...but I haven't really played one enough alongside a tube amp but the Princeton and Deluxe TM amps are 2/3 the cost of the tube versions. And the TM amps have good cabinets and speakers, not cheap crappy ones like budget combo amps.

I have a Blackstar Amped 1 and an Orange 1x12 cab. Combined those are just under $1,000 new, which is right around the price of a TM Princeton or Deluxe. I dunno, that seems reasonable to me.

Just doing some math...a Mojotone Deluxe unloaded cab is $370 and the Jensen N12K is $200 so call it $575. That means the solid state amp is just under $500 and the tube amp is $1100 (technically the speaker in the tube version is cheaper but let's call it even).

Or if I look at the Bassman version, both the tube and TM versions have 4x10 cabs with Jensen P10R speakers. A Mojotone Bassman unloaded cab is $450 or so, and a set of four P10R's is about $500. So $950 without the amp, which means $550 for the solid state amp and $1100 for the tube one.

 

[ian_dissonance]

I don't think ALL of the TM amps are overpriced...but I haven't really played one enough alongside a tube amp but the Princeton and Deluxe TM amps are 2/3 the cost of the tube versions. And the TM amps have good cabinets and speakers, not cheap crappy ones like budget combo amps.

I have a Blackstar Amped 1 and an Orange 1x12 cab. Combined those are just under $1,000 new, which is right around the price of a TM Princeton or Deluxe. I dunno, that seems reasonable to me.

I don’t think L6 would sell zero, but all four of the sales aren’t going to cover R&D.
But I also don’t think anyone would buy the TM at its price of it didn’t say Fender on it, even with upgraded components.