Tube power amp sounds better than solid state power amp for modelers

[northern_fox]

I agree with all of this and it's not just about character EQ. Something about the physical process of amplifying the signal into a cab via a tube section -- mainly as the volume goes up -- is still a bit different. Maybe doesn't matter in a band setting, but alone in a room I still enjoy using tube power amps more despite having a lot of different options including the GT1000FX. I don't really care about the coloration (you can largely dial it out anyway), I just care what's the most enjoyable experience. VHT 2902 and the KSR PA50 are my normal goto for modelers for playing, even though I'll use the matrix often for reference and comparisons and stuff.

Edit: as a followup, you can try comparing a recorded signal from a speaker level DI of a tube amp into a cab played back into the same cab with a SS amp in an A/B with the same guitar di reamped into the actual amp without changing anything into that same cab. With some amps (my recto for example) there is a (small) but definite difference between the reamp in realtime and the prerecorded playback through the SS matrix even though it's an identical amp/cab tone

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I agree with all of this and it's not just about character EQ. Something about the physical process of amplifying the signal into a cab via a tube section -- mainly as the volume goes up -- is still a bit different. Maybe doesn't matter in a band setting, but alone in a room I still enjoy using tube power amps more despite having a lot of different options including the GT1000FX. I don't really care about the coloration (you can largely dial it out anyway), I just care what's the most enjoyable experience. VHT 2902 and the KSR PA50 are my normal goto for modelers for playing, even though I'll use the matrix often for reference and comparisons and stuff.

100% this.

IMO the biggest difference with valve and solid state is the cab interation with the poweramp and the push/pull of the speakers interacting with the amp. We’re used to a certain response from amps pushing guitar cabs - it’s not really one thing or the other, it’s the combined system of both.

Some solid state poweramps can sound alright but even the better ones don’t compare to a good valve amp driving a cab for me.

 

[northern_fox]

100% this.

IMO the biggest difference with valve and solid state is the cab interation with the poweramp and the push/pull of the speakers interacting with the amp. We’re used to a certain response from amps pushing guitar cabs - it’s not really one thing or the other, it’s the combined system of both.

Some solid state poweramps can sound alright but even the better ones don’t compare to a good valve amp driving a cab for me.

And what I forgot to mention is that this is clearly modeled/captured as with fractal -- but it still doesn't necessarily translate the same way in the physical process of amplification. You'd never get it from a PA or recording, but it's more of a "standing in front of the speaker" thing often times. Even though it's 'modeled', I still prefer using tube poweramps

 

[MirrorProfiles]

You'd never get it from a PA or recording, but it's more of a "standing in front of the speaker" thing often times

totally agree - it really needs that interaction of the amp and cabinet you are actually playing. I think speakers just sound and feel odd if you don’t have that, no matter what signal you’re feeding into it

 

[Jarick]

Awesome feedback and I’m surprised most people are in agreement!

It’s a shame I ditched the Catalyst a couple weeks ago as I would be curious what the class D amp is like.

Also I would love to measure something like an orange pedal baby that people seem to like a lot for tube feel compared to other solid state amps.

 

[Alex Kenivel]

Thanks for taking these measurements @Jarick, I always wondered about the Kat.

 

[AFKAEjay]

Here’s a result of a test I did a while back. Recorded preamp track, static cab/mic setup, the only variable is the poweramp.
4 powersections, 1 ss, 3 tube, 2 different tube types, just above conversation level. Though I prefer tube poweramps…good luck telling what is what Difference between 6l6 and El34…,overated imo

 

[Stone]

ive never played a tube amp so I would not know
alls I know is I get great tones with my FM9 and my 2 Powercabs
I do cut @80hz and Around 8k, sounds great to me no fizz no harshness, but then again I've never compared to how you guys have

 

[Jarick]

Thanks for taking these measurements @Jarick, I always wondered about the Kat.

Honestly I think it's exactly what it's advertised, a flat clean amp. And the speaker and cab are really good. It sounds really good using just as a standalone amp and with pedals. I just think a modeler may need some cuts and EQ.

ive never played a tube amp so I would not know
alls I know is I get great tones with my FM9 and my 2 Powercabs
I do cut @80hz and Around 8k, sounds great to me no fizz no harshness, but then again I've never compared to how you guys have

I hadn't for a long time, until recently. Those cuts though make sense now!

 

[Stone]

One thing though as I have witnessed recently if I dialed in my tone with certain pickup type and If i try another guitar
with different types of pickups the patch sounds totally wrong and off

 

[Elric]

Awesome feedback and I’m surprised most people are in agreement!

Echo chamber for the win. FWIW, I use traditional amps mostly these days and have a bunch of tube power amps to run modelers through as well as multiple SS options and cabs. I think most of the respondents here are grossly over generalizing and over simplifying, TBH. But that is how these kind of discussions go. There are a lot of variables.

 

[laxu]

I'll go against the grain here. I've tried several modelers through a Fryette Power Station 100 (2x 6550 tubes) vs my BluGuitar Amp 1 Mercury Edition (hybrid with subminiature tube for tube response + Class D solid-state poweramp).

The difference between them was minor soundwise with the BluGuitar having a bit of a "character" to it - no surprise since it's meant to emulate a guitar poweramp - but the BluGuitar is more compact and less noisy (no idle noise and no audible fan noise) so for modelers I'd even say it's the better poweramp.

 

[BenIfin]

As always ..... "if it sounds good it is good "

But isn't there an issue (?) in that the Modelers [mostly all of them] model the Tube Power Amp Stage so you would be running a model of a cranked virtual Tube Power Amp Stage -into- a real cranked Tube Power Amp Stage ? ... doubling up so to speak ?

So if doing it with an Axe 3, would it not be "best" / "advisable" to Globally Turn OFF the Power Amp Modelling if running into the EFX Return of a real Tube Power Amp (?)

With Helix this cant be done.

Just some random thoughts.

Ben

 

[partytrain]

Looks like it’s time for me to point out that the Tech 21 PE60 (preferably with the original speaker) is still my undisputed champion for amp tones out of any modeler.

 

[laxu]

As always ..... "if it sounds good it is good "

But isn't there an issue (?) in that the Modelers [mostly all of them] model the Tube Power Amp Stage so you would be running a model of a cranked virtual Tube Power Amp Stage -into- a real cranked Tube Power Amp Stage ? ... doubling up so to speak ?

So if doing it with an Axe 3, would it not be "best" / "advisable" to Globally Turn OFF the Power Amp Modelling if running into the EFX Return of a real Tube Power Amp (?)

With Helix this cant be done.

Just some random thoughts.

Ben

It honestly works just fine. Most likely your tube poweramp is powerful enough that you aren't running it into powertube distortion.

 

[JT]

Ewwww powertube distortion

 

[James Freeman]

**** that ****

 

[itchyfingers]

How ironic. Modelers usher in the death of tube amps, but only sound good with tube amps.

 

[AutomationBias]

But isn't there an issue (?) in that the Modelers [mostly all of them] model the Tube Power Amp Stage so you would be running a model of a cranked virtual Tube Power Amp Stage -into- a real cranked Tube Power Amp Stage ? ... doubling up so to speak ?

So if doing it with an Axe 3, would it not be "best" / "advisable" to Globally Turn OFF the Power Amp Modelling if running into the EFX Return of a real Tube Power Amp (?)

Depends. If it's a flat tube power amp, you'd leave power amp modeling enabled.

 

[Foxmeister]

With Helix this cant be done.

It's true you can't turn off the power amp modelling on the Helix, but you can swap out the amp block for a preamp block.