Tube power amp sounds better than solid state power amp for modelers

[northern_fox]

100% this.

IMO the biggest difference with valve and solid state is the cab interation with the poweramp and the push/pull of the speakers interacting with the amp. We’re used to a certain response from amps pushing guitar cabs - it’s not really one thing or the other, it’s the combined system of both.

Some solid state poweramps can sound alright but even the better ones don’t compare to a good valve amp driving a cab for me.

And what I forgot to mention is that this is clearly modeled/captured as with fractal -- but it still doesn't necessarily translate the same way in the physical process of amplification. You'd never get it from a PA or recording, but it's more of a "standing in front of the speaker" thing often times. Even though it's 'modeled', I still prefer using tube poweramps

 

[MirrorProfiles]

You'd never get it from a PA or recording, but it's more of a "standing in front of the speaker" thing often times

totally agree - it really needs that interaction of the amp and cabinet you are actually playing. I think speakers just sound and feel odd if you don’t have that, no matter what signal you’re feeding into it

 

[Jarick]

Awesome feedback and I’m surprised most people are in agreement!

It’s a shame I ditched the Catalyst a couple weeks ago as I would be curious what the class D amp is like.

Also I would love to measure something like an orange pedal baby that people seem to like a lot for tube feel compared to other solid state amps.

 

[Alex Kenivel]

Thanks for taking these measurements @Jarick, I always wondered about the Kat.

 

[Stone]

ive never played a tube amp so I would not know
alls I know is I get great tones with my FM9 and my 2 Powercabs
I do cut @80hz and Around 8k, sounds great to me no fizz no harshness, but then again I've never compared to how you guys have

 

[Jarick]

Thanks for taking these measurements @Jarick, I always wondered about the Kat.

Honestly I think it's exactly what it's advertised, a flat clean amp. And the speaker and cab are really good. It sounds really good using just as a standalone amp and with pedals. I just think a modeler may need some cuts and EQ.

ive never played a tube amp so I would not know
alls I know is I get great tones with my FM9 and my 2 Powercabs
I do cut @80hz and Around 8k, sounds great to me no fizz no harshness, but then again I've never compared to how you guys have

I hadn't for a long time, until recently. Those cuts though make sense now!

 

[Stone]

One thing though as I have witnessed recently if I dialed in my tone with certain pickup type and If i try another guitar
with different types of pickups the patch sounds totally wrong and off

 

[Elric]

Awesome feedback and I’m surprised most people are in agreement!

Echo chamber for the win. FWIW, I use traditional amps mostly these days and have a bunch of tube power amps to run modelers through as well as multiple SS options and cabs. I think most of the respondents here are grossly over generalizing and over simplifying, TBH. But that is how these kind of discussions go. There are a lot of variables.

 

[laxu]

I'll go against the grain here. I've tried several modelers through a Fryette Power Station 100 (2x 6550 tubes) vs my BluGuitar Amp 1 Mercury Edition (hybrid with subminiature tube for tube response + Class D solid-state poweramp).

The difference between them was minor soundwise with the BluGuitar having a bit of a "character" to it - no surprise since it's meant to emulate a guitar poweramp - but the BluGuitar is more compact and less noisy (no idle noise and no audible fan noise) so for modelers I'd even say it's the better poweramp.

 

[BenIfin]

As always ..... "if it sounds good it is good "

But isn't there an issue (?) in that the Modelers [mostly all of them] model the Tube Power Amp Stage so you would be running a model of a cranked virtual Tube Power Amp Stage -into- a real cranked Tube Power Amp Stage ? ... doubling up so to speak ?

So if doing it with an Axe 3, would it not be "best" / "advisable" to Globally Turn OFF the Power Amp Modelling if running into the EFX Return of a real Tube Power Amp (?)

With Helix this cant be done.

Just some random thoughts.

Ben

 

[partytrain]

Looks like it’s time for me to point out that the Tech 21 PE60 (preferably with the original speaker) is still my undisputed champion for amp tones out of any modeler.

 

[laxu]

As always ..... "if it sounds good it is good "

But isn't there an issue (?) in that the Modelers [mostly all of them] model the Tube Power Amp Stage so you would be running a model of a cranked virtual Tube Power Amp Stage -into- a real cranked Tube Power Amp Stage ? ... doubling up so to speak ?

So if doing it with an Axe 3, would it not be "best" / "advisable" to Globally Turn OFF the Power Amp Modelling if running into the EFX Return of a real Tube Power Amp (?)

With Helix this cant be done.

Just some random thoughts.

Ben

It honestly works just fine. Most likely your tube poweramp is powerful enough that you aren't running it into powertube distortion.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Ewwww powertube distortion

 

[James Freeman]

**** that ****

 

[itchyfingers]

How ironic. Modelers usher in the death of tube amps, but only sound good with tube amps.

 

[AutomationBias]

But isn't there an issue (?) in that the Modelers [mostly all of them] model the Tube Power Amp Stage so you would be running a model of a cranked virtual Tube Power Amp Stage -into- a real cranked Tube Power Amp Stage ? ... doubling up so to speak ?

So if doing it with an Axe 3, would it not be "best" / "advisable" to Globally Turn OFF the Power Amp Modelling if running into the EFX Return of a real Tube Power Amp (?)

Depends. If it's a flat tube power amp, you'd leave power amp modeling enabled.

 

[Foxmeister]

With Helix this cant be done.

It's true you can't turn off the power amp modelling on the Helix, but you can swap out the amp block for a preamp block.

 

[Baba]

Ewwww powertube distortion

 

[Jarick]

Echo chamber for the win. FWIW, I use traditional amps mostly these days and have a bunch of tube power amps to run modelers through as well as multiple SS options and cabs. I think most of the respondents here are grossly over generalizing and over simplifying, TBH. But that is how these kind of discussions go. There are a lot of variables.

Well I don't think anyone's trying to kiss my ass if that's what you're saying.

Did you use EQ/cuts with the amps? I think that's the big thing I'm seeing. Knowing my sample size is small and I haven't measured much, but it's pretty obvious between these amps anyway.

I'll go against the grain here. I've tried several modelers through a Fryette Power Station 100 (2x 6550 tubes) vs my BluGuitar Amp 1 Mercury Edition (hybrid with subminiature tube for tube response + Class D solid-state poweramp).

The difference between them was minor soundwise with the BluGuitar having a bit of a "character" to it - no surprise since it's meant to emulate a guitar poweramp - but the BluGuitar is more compact and less noisy (no idle noise and no audible fan noise) so for modelers I'd even say it's the better poweramp.

I'd be curious to see what the BluGuitar measures at, if there's any EQ applies in the power amp section.

I think there's likely some power amps that are meant to more closely emulate tube guitar amps, and others which are trying to be very clean and flat more like a P.A. system. Thomas Blug is a really brilliant guy and the Amp 1 is very well regarded, so if the high/low cut effect is common for tube guitar amps, he likely included it.

I would like to test out the Orange stuff like the Pedal Baby or Terror Stamp. If I find one cheap I may snag it to see how it sounds/measures.

As always ..... "if it sounds good it is good "

But isn't there an issue (?) in that the Modelers [mostly all of them] model the Tube Power Amp Stage so you would be running a model of a cranked virtual Tube Power Amp Stage -into- a real cranked Tube Power Amp Stage ? ... doubling up so to speak ?

So if doing it with an Axe 3, would it not be "best" / "advisable" to Globally Turn OFF the Power Amp Modelling if running into the EFX Return of a real Tube Power Amp (?)

With Helix this cant be done.

Just some random thoughts.

Ben

So I'm not cranking this amp by any means, there may be a little compression, maybe, but likely it's pretty clean. The big thing I see is the tonal shaping, not necessarily the distortion. I suppose I could measure the Axe 3 output with and without power amp modeling but I don't see any reason to turn it off honestly.

With Helix I've always found the preamp models to sound awful by themselves. Especially with any kind of vintage amp, you need the power section to get the tone.

Looks like it’s time for me to point out that the Tech 21 PE60 (preferably with the original speaker) is still my undisputed champion for amp tones out of any modeler.

I'd love to try one out. It's been on my radar for about 20 years but never pulled the trigger.

Ewwww powertube distortion

No power tube distortion at the volume levels I'm using for sure.

 

[Jarick]

Yeah the Bandit is SS and a couple others I didn't mention were a Samson SS power amp and little Joyo Meteor which is technically a SS amp with a tube pre. I actually didn't mind the Bandit all that much but yeah stiff and and a bit sterile comparatively.

Those Spider Valves are a great value for what you get. A Bogner designed power amp and if you get a combo, like you said stock V30's come in them.

Saw a used DT50 at the store yesterday for $400 and was pretty intrigued. Any idea how close they are (or aren't) to the Spider Valve? It had some rebranded Celestion speaker in it, looked pretty decent quality, but weighed an absolute ton.